# What turns into zombie?

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-turns-into-zombie/28167>\
**Category:** The Bunker\
**Created:** [September 12, 2022, 9:40pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-turns-into-zombie/28167 "2022-09-12T21:40:27Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 8\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![spicyshadow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5e9695/32.png) [@spicyshadow](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/spicyshadow)\
**Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 9:40pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-turns-into-zombie/28167/1 "2022-09-12T21:40:27Z")

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I´m a little confused as to what can turn into a zombie after death lorewise.  
It seems that toads can resurect after death and by extention amphibians although the only ones large enough to do so are always mutant.  
Fish seem to be immune even mutant ones that are large enough to resurect except for sharks.  
All mammals seem to resurect if large enough but some mutants don´t while some like humans do.  
Any kind of invertribrate doesn´t resurrect even if mutated to a approtriate size same goes for birds.

So what is the deal with resurection? Does the blob simply not like or can´t work with certian types of creatures? Is this intenional or are there plans to have zombie centepides and slugs going around?

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**Author:** ![PALU](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e56c9b/32.png) [@PALU](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/PALU)\
**Post date:** [September 12, 2022, 10:08pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-turns-into-zombie/28167/2 "2022-09-12T22:08:44Z")

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My guess is that it started with mammals over a certain size (on the species: tiny dog breeds resurrect as well, although that’s probably a non intended side effect of how breeds inherit properties), then somebody came up with shark. At some point somebody came up with giant non mammal mutants that won’t revive for some reason (probably a combination of how much work it would be to make zombie versions of them as well, together with the zombie versions being even more overpowered compared to the giant ones, as well as zombies and arthropods not being properly mutually hostile).  
Then somebody came up with giant amphibians, following the pattern of arthropods.

Mutant revival is indeed rather arbitrary, with some reviving, some don’t (including some human mutants), and mucus ones not reviving (due to mucus magic, presumably), unless they end up in a fire, in which case they revive as scorched zombies (and you can’t prevent that, as you’re not allowed to pulp mucus zombie corpses).

The lore I’ve seen indicates revival should happen if the corpse is large enough and with a sufficiently low amount of structural damage (a missing, or largely destroyed head is not sufficient damage, nor is destroyed legs, assuming headless etc. zombies and crawlers match the intended lore). The blob doesn’t shy away from essentially doubling up the skeleton with a bone exoskeleton in a bunch of zombies, so that shouldn’t be a factor. You could make the rather arbitrary argument that the creature should be homeotherm, or at least mezzotherm (“warm blooded”, and having a regulated core temperature respectively), but that seems quite, well, arbitrary.  
Thus, I’d say the implementation doesn’t match the lore, in a number of cases.

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**Author:** ![npostavs](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/npostavs/32/11802_2.png) [@npostavs](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/npostavs)\
**Post date:** [September 13, 2022, 1:42pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-turns-into-zombie/28167/3 "2022-09-13T13:42:20Z")

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> [@PALU](#):
>
> unless they end up in a fire, in which case they revive as scorched zombies (and you can’t prevent that, as you’re not allowed to pulp mucus zombie corpses).

Would Butchering work? (Also, I guess s/mucus/mycus/, unless there are some snot-themed monsters I haven’t heard about)

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**Author:** ![spicyshadow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5e9695/32.png) [@spicyshadow](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/spicyshadow)\
**Post date:** [September 13, 2022, 1:51pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-turns-into-zombie/28167/4 "2022-09-13T13:51:30Z")

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Butchering always prevents anything from reviving. Even if you are just skinning it.

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**Author:** ![Venera3](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/venera3/32/10569_2.png) [@Venera3](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Venera3)\
**Post date:** [September 13, 2022, 6:32pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-turns-into-zombie/28167/5 "2022-09-13T18:32:01Z")

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Soon.

> <https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/60605>
>
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> 
> \#### Summary
> Content "Add meat cocoons and zombie amalgamations"
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> Zombification is a bit weird currently in that it only happens to normal critters / humans, mutants just fall to the ground and stay down. That's not very apocalyptic, but on the other hand adding 6000 zombie variants would be a huge chore and not very interesting.
> This PR tries for a solution that fixes both, and serves as a little teaser for the flesh factories that the (far, far) future has in store.
> 
> \#### Describe the solution
> 
> 
> \- Add meat cocoons of different sizes to serve as an intermediate step of reconstituting the weird mutant biomass on the spot
> \- Add 6 new purpose-made abominations to emerge from the different sizes of cocoons (see Additional Context for the critters)
> 
> TODO: 
> \- \[x\] Harvest snippets, those are always fun
> \- \[\] Combat testing
> \- \[x\] Actually add the cocoons as a \`zombify\_into\` field to all mutant animals, arhtropods included
> \- \[x\] Since zombos now have a reason to hunt bugs dissolve the zombie / creepy crawly truce and watch swamps neighboring towns erupt into a multigenerational free-for-all. That should be fun.
> 
> \#### Describe alternatives you've considered
> 
> 
> Lots.
> 
> \#### Testing
> 
> 
> Monsters zombify into the cocoons, the cocoons spawn the correct number of critters respecting spawn conditions (huge thanks to dseguin for tweaking the nested mongroups / growup spawns).
> Weakpoints trigger, the forbidden / required effects logic up the monster specials as intended.
> 
> \#### Additional context
> 
> 
> ~~I'm aware \`abomination\` isn't very inspired as far as names go, so I'm open to suggestions.~~ Decided on \`amalgamation\`, that's a bit less generic.
> The general flavor for these is an alien bodyplan with 7 limbs warped to resemble earthly animals in a slightly mix-and-match fashion, meant as single-tasked throwaway drones/workers. 
> 
> Currently three small and three medium-sized critters, the composition of the monstergroups is meant to allow for different spawns adding up to roughly the cocoon's initial weight.
> 
> Small amalgamations:
> \- \`swarming\` - small, antish things running around and taking a bite out of you if you let them, basically the Blob's interpretation of army ants
> \- \`vigilant\` - great vision range and a warning screech, meant to guide the other abominations to your position (their vision isn't that hot), pretty much nonthreatening alone
> \- \`caustic\` - what's better than bites? Acid! Lots of it, for that matter, but it needs a powerup attack to unlock its best special and weakpoint hits will disable it consistently. Starts spawning 120 days in, because acid.
> 
> Medium amalgamations:
> \- \`leaping\` - Cat-bat-bird things running slowly but leaping fast to take a bite out of you.
> \- \`brutish\` - Bear-Dinosaur-Centipede beatstick to run up to you and kick your teeth in with a clubbed tail and a lot of chomp.
> \- \`charged\` - What if shockers, but worse(and crabby)? Heaps a glowing organ filled with Blob Bullshit-flavored lightning around to lug at you, starts spawning 120 days in for understandable reasons.
> 
> Zombification rules: 
> \- Monsters below 10 kg don't cocoonify
> \- 10 - 35 kg monsters zombify into the tiny cocoon, spawning a single swarmer
> \- 36 - 100 kg monsters turn into the small cocoon, spawning (surprise) a mix of small monsters
> \- 101 - 300 kg monsters turn into the medium cocoon, spawning a mix of small and medium monsters
> \- 301+ kg monsters turn into a large cocoon, that spawns a larger number of small/mediums

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**Author:** ![spicyshadow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5e9695/32.png) [@spicyshadow](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/spicyshadow)\
**Post date:** [September 14, 2022, 7:18pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-turns-into-zombie/28167/6 "2022-09-14T19:18:35Z")

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Very interesting way to implement mutant revivecation. But there are a few things that stand out as odd about them:

Aren´t these things a little too strong to start spawning after a week. Espesially the small abomination seems like it might have a little to much HP. It is only about the size of a medium dog and is supposed to have no bones so you could probably chop it in halve if you used a battleaxe or great sword on a critical but if you give it 160 HP you can´t kill in one stike with even on a critical.

If you give them “PATH\_AVOID\_DANGER\_2” than they will avoid dangerous terrain but also traps. Implying that they are somehow intelligent enough to recognize thing as bear traps and shotgun traps as dangerous. Having them avoid dangerous terrain makes them much harder to deal with and it seems strange that a zombie created from animals is somehow smarter than the creatures it came from. A zombie that is somehow more intelligent than when it was alive would be a first in the game as it usually goes the other way around.

The armour values also seem wierd. Usually the pierce armour is supposed to be lower than the cut armour. This is becease things like knifes and spears have their force more concentrated on one point. The ballistic armour also seems a little high (although monster ballistic armour in general probably needs and audit and be lowered in many cases).

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**Author:** ![Venera3](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/venera3/32/10569_2.png) [@Venera3](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Venera3)\
**Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 12:28pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-turns-into-zombie/28167/7 "2022-09-15T12:28:16Z")

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They don’t spawn after a week, and they never spawn passively for now - as it stands something needs to die, regrow as a cocoon and then grow up into the end result. The way it’s set up you only have single swarmer spawns until the man-sized creatures show up, which is pretty much Summer at the earliest these days barring subways and other fun corners of the world.

HP and armor are fluid, but they don’t really have organs inside so beating them to a pulp is the only way to keep them down. Pierce and ranged are extra penalized for this exact reason.

They very explicitly aren’t “just zombies”, and being smarter is a pretty good way to show that.

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**Author:** ![spicyshadow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/5e9695/32.png) [@spicyshadow](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/spicyshadow)\
**Post date:** [September 15, 2022, 10:57pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-turns-into-zombie/28167/8 "2022-09-15T22:57:58Z")

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Interesting to give them no organs. That would explain the the high bash, bullet resistance and the HP. They would however at minimum need some kind of nervous (for senses, movement and reacting to the enviroment), muscular (for locomation) and circulatory system (you cant have metabolism without it). These systems however could be distributed around the entire creature in some way with probably plenty of redundency build in.

It still seems wierd however that they would be so smart that they recognize traps. I could understand avoiding pits and fire as many animals have a instinctual fear of those. But recognizing a shutgun trap or bear trap as dangerous without memories of them in their former lives is probably something that is outside the capabilities of even the blob.