# What is the benefit of having a base?

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319>\
**Category:** The Bunker\
**Created:** [April 22, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319 "2018-04-22T19:13:49Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![SmSkdm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@SmSkdm](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/SmSkdm)\
**Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 7:13pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/1 "2018-04-22T19:13:49Z")

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I have a vehicle that allows me to craft most everything in the game(onboard forge, welder, FOODCO buddy, and a general cooker) and enough storage space that I’ve never needed to leave something behind. What are the benefits of having a stationary base besides farming?

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**Author:** ![DeWolf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@DeWolf](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/DeWolf)\
**Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 7:22pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/2 "2018-04-22T19:22:21Z")

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Essentially just farming and booze.  
And easier mass production of charcoal.

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**Author:** ![psyxypher](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/psyxypher/32/11778_2.png) [@psyxypher](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/psyxypher)\
**Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 7:25pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/3 "2018-04-22T19:25:18Z")

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Somewhere to park all those NPCs. And you’ll need to unload all that crap eventually, even if you do have Storage Dimensions, because, Spoiler Alert, they don’t store NEARLY as much crap as they say they do (they can store up to 4096 Liters, IIRC) and they still add to the weight of your vehicle.

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**Author:** ![Walegrin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/walegrin/32/1392_2.png) [@Walegrin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Walegrin)\
**Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 7:32pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/4 "2018-04-22T19:32:51Z")

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Some of it just comes down to individual playstyle.

I used to be a static base person then I discovered mobile bases. 🙂 Now I drive around in my truck o’ doom and set up short term bases as needed. Usually when I’m clearing an area or as DeWolf said, trying to mass produce charcoal or something else.

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**Author:** ![Rose](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/rose/32/1963_2.png) [@Rose](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Rose)\
**Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 9:56pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/5 "2018-04-22T21:56:23Z")

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I use my base as a large storage shed. Come on, I can’t just haul around all those tonnes of food, fuel and scrap. Seriously, I’ve collected so much loot that no vehicle could lift it. Not that I really need that loot, actually… But I just can’t leave it.

Also, brewing. Can’t mount a fermenting vat on a vehicle. Not that I need those wines and vinegars… But what else do I do in this game aside from scavenging and storing?

Also, growing. Not that I need all those veggies, I can easily eat offals and wild veggies, but… what else does one do in this game? [2]

Also, sleeping. Time increments much slower when I’m inside my ride. It looks like the game needs more cycles to calculate… something?.. and the game just runs slower. Around 6 times slower.

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**Author:** ![TheMurderUnicorn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/themurderunicorn/32/5706_2.png) [@TheMurderUnicorn](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheMurderUnicorn)\
**Post date:** [April 22, 2018, 11:56pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/6 "2018-04-22T23:56:26Z")

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I’ll second the nod to growing. I build a mobile base in every game (that lasts at least into summer) but I usually keep a singular static base somewhere on the map to unload my stuff.

Mostly, though, I like farming. Watching all that canola and marijuana blowing in the breeze . . . Or, you know, whatever. I like farming and I can’t do that on the go.

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**Author:** ![SmSkdm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@SmSkdm](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/SmSkdm)\
**Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:21am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/7 "2018-04-23T02:21:52Z")

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Dimensions only store 2^12 vol? that puts a dampener on my plan. Then again, im only 1.5 years in, so i shouldnt need to worry about storage for a couple of in game years.

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**Author:** ![SmSkdm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@SmSkdm](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/SmSkdm)\
**Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 2:23am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/8 "2018-04-23T02:23:16Z")

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Ive noticed that it was extremely slow sleeping recently, and sleeping in houses makes night go by much faster. Thanks!

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**Author:** ![DanielPBak](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/danielpbak/32/2120_2.png) [@DanielPBak](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/DanielPBak)\
**Post date:** [April 23, 2018, 10:20pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/9 "2018-04-23T22:20:59Z")

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A base is a place to be safe while you craft, read, or whatever. Plus you can install unmoveable or heavy equipment for more advanced crafting. Lugging everything you own everywhere eventually becomes impossible.

Mobile bases are cool albeit less secure.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/10 "2018-04-24T00:11:57Z")

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This is a pressing issue for the game, because stationary bases SHOULD be much more valuable and easier to maintain, but vulnerable to monster attacks. This isn’t handled properly though, so vehicles are better in most ways.  
It doesn’t help when mods add things like storage dimensions, if you add that kind of thing it totally wrecks balance.

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**Author:** ![Fuscosco](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/fuscosco/32/1327_2.png) [@Fuscosco](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Fuscosco)\
**Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/11 "2018-04-24T01:10:49Z")

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I would like to see hordes wander around the map in some sort of ‘stumbling migration’. They could respond to noise, but essentially just be large waves of wandering zeds. You’d hear them coming, and see their vague location on the overmap, and smaller hordes can be anchored to cities.

As far as nerfing vehicles, I think more raiders, or npc aggressors might fix that. NPCs raiding wandering players, factions with ‘outposts’ that can send more organized ‘hunting parties’ after players who don’t play respects or tribute (essentially scripable missions that fire when the player murders said npcs but doesnt disable [xyz]), or some other manner of stalker that follows and catches up to mobile players.

And nerfing the endgame cars. Super-mega steel is going to have to go one day, you know, or players will continue to make vehicles that can hold up to hulks better than concrete walls can…

Fleshing out NPCs to do your chores, or giving them a real reason to be desired, would help. Right now they are equivalent to living books or meatshields. neither requires a stationary base. Making an NPC require an auto shop to train you to level 5 mech would be cool. Or building shed to level up your construction?

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**Author:** ![TheMurderUnicorn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/themurderunicorn/32/5706_2.png) [@TheMurderUnicorn](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheMurderUnicorn)\
**Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 1:48am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/12 "2018-04-24T01:48:16Z")

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I unfortunately don’t think there’s an easy answer. I think you should focus more on encouraging permanence, rather than nerfing things that are already in-game (though I’m about to flip-flop and suggest nerfing things)

The biggest obstacle, I think, is that electricity is currently only implementable utilizing vehicle frames. Because of this, most of the cool mid/lategame parts rely on power and can be installed in vehicles. Unless you’re willing to remove the vehicle welder, chem-lab, etc. and make them furniture or items, you’re always going to be more rewarded for having a super-vehicle than you will with having a base.

I don’t have any answers, I just think that there’s extremely limited reason to establish a permanent base, beyond farming and dropping off thousands of items I don’t even need. Which is unfortunate. I look at other zombie games, like 7 days to die, and wish that I had a reason to build something in this game that’s elaborate and beautiful, when really any four-walled shack is good enough to farm and dump junk.

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**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 2:57am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/13 "2018-04-24T02:57:00Z")

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The biggest issue I see is that a stationary base is always going to run out of nearby resources quickly, while a mobile base can be moved closer to resources. The best fix for this, IMO, would be to make it so that you can set up an NPC-manned base and send out scavenging parties to collect resources, because then it adds a base-management aspect to the game and you no longer have limited resources at static bases.

That way a mobile base may be superior in it’s ability to collect resources, but with a static base you can start setting up crafting areas, teachers, guards, etc. If you make your NPCs self-sufficient and get them to produce more than they need, then suddenly all your needs are handled by them and you can focus on quests, fighting, looting, whatever. You could even have it get to the point where you can start having wars with other bases or starting to reclaim substantial areas and work toward a win condition.

Set it up that way and mobile bases are better midgame, while static bases are necessary to access the really good lategame content.

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**Author:** ![TheKobold](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/thekobold/32/513_2.png) [@TheKobold](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheKobold)\
**Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 5:26am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/14 "2018-04-24T05:26:52Z")

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If only Rim-cataclysm was a game…Rimclysm… Cataworld… Dark days in the Rimworld?..

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 7:06pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/15 "2018-04-24T19:06:07Z")

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> [@Fuscosco](#):
>
> I would like to see hordes wander around the map in some sort of ‘stumbling migration’.

Me too [[WIP] Hordes 2.0 by kevingranade · Pull Request #14240 · CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA · GitHub](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/14240)

> [@Fuscosco](#):
>
> As far as nerfing vehicles, I think more raiders, or npc aggressors might fix that.

I’m not following how this nerfs vehicles, since the player can presumably just run away. Do you mean that the raiding parties make it unsafe to hang out (sleep, craft, read) in a vehicle in certain (all?) areas? Do they send out vehicular raiding parties to chase the player down?!?  
More importantly, why does this not affect someone with a stationary base?

> [@Fuscosco](#):
>
> Fleshing out NPCs to do your chores, or giving them a real reason to be desired, would help.

> [@darktoes](#):
>
> set up an NPC-manned base and send out scavenging parties to collect resources

I’d be interested in these kinds of things. In addition, some NPCs should only be willing to do the running around fighting zombies and monsters thing as long as there is no alternative, once there’s a settlement available they should defect to living there, whether it’s run by the player or an independent settlement. Along with this though is having the NPCs consume resources, so dedicated scavenging and farming becomes a necessity instead of an option.

> [@TheMurderUnicorn](#):
>
> Unless you’re willing to remove the vehicle welder, chem-lab, etc. **and** make them furniture or items, you’re always going to be more rewarded for having a super-vehicle than you will with having a base.

The only part I disagree with is the **and** , if we make those just as readily available in a fixed base as they are in a vehicle, it’ll remove the distinction, and they’ll compete for other reasons. Though I do think many of the heavier tools (forges, anvils) should have a superior version that isn’t practically mountable on a vehicle (a 500lb anvil is going to cause problems with fuel economy), and some very heavy tools (lathes come to mind, they seem to start at a very high weight)

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**Author:** ![psyxypher](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/psyxypher/32/11778_2.png) [@psyxypher](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/psyxypher)\
**Post date:** [April 24, 2018, 11:27pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/16 "2018-04-24T23:27:58Z")

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Personally, I’d be more inclined to stick around one place if it was easier to farm and sell resources for money. Perhaps you can hire a trader/broker from the Refugee Center to stick around your base and give you money in exchange for goods?

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**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/17 "2018-04-25T01:08:52Z")

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Harvest Moon games always had a small crate in your farm that you could drop things in to sell them once the trader came around every evening. It’d be really cool if we could toss a bunch of items into a special area and then have trade caravans come through and take what they want, leaving a bunch of money or items you specify.

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**Author:** ![SmSkdm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/77aa72/32.png) [@SmSkdm](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/SmSkdm)\
**Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 4:45am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/18 "2018-04-25T04:45:18Z")

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My opinion of it is that immediately after the cataclysm(first 5-10 years), everyone is just in a mad scramble to grab as much power(or land)as possible/get super zombies so they can saturate the world without resistance/organize themselves so they wont die or aren’t in harms way. After that period of time,all the remaining factions begin encroaching on each others territory(Fungus start spreading like mad, zombies encroaching on the last of the survivors, Triffids setting up new hearts, human murdering everything that looks funny, etc.), and start consolidating their power with guards and patrols. The human factions would put up land mines or armed guards to stop random creatures from wandering in, the fungus would put up big slabs of rock/fungus to stop others, the mycus would put shoggoths or some other all devouring beast to assimilate new biomass and im not sure what the triffids would do. My point being, the power of vehicles is that they are able to move around, and can skip most difficult fights or situations. I say once research and comprehensive base building with NPCS is in game, curb the usefullness of vehicles. More and more roadblockers would appear, forcing players to clear out areas bit by bit, or make them leave hotspots altogether.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 3:20pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/19 "2018-04-25T15:20:26Z")

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> [@SmSkdm](#):
>
> More and more roadblockers would appear, forcing players to clear out areas bit by bit, or make them leave hotspots altogether.

If they’re actual roadblocks that would be a solid vehicle nerf.  
A new contributor appeared that’s making a solid stab at extending the vehicle system further, including adding traction handling, which will finally eliminate the status quo were all vehicles off-road equally well.

> <https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/23560>
>
> Vehicles are currently a bit of a hot mess. There is precious little room for JS…ON customization and many of the hardcoded formulas are arbitrary, nonsensical, or both. Balance is sketchy at best, with V12 bicycles gaining a measure of notoriety. Despite these flaws, vehicles are immensely popular. Seemingly everyone not deliberating looking for a challenge attempts to build a Deathmobile. 
> 
> Previous attempts to resolve these flaws have encountered a number of problems. Complex and obaque rpm and gearing restrictions proved an inadequate solution to overinflated maximum velocities. In addition, many features such as collisions and multiple engines were removed or broken. These difficulties are non-trivial and must be given due considered lest future projects rediscover them independently.
> 
> That said, I believe I can make some progress on the vehicle problem. I've already made good progress on part 1a and I have made an effort to separate features into discrete sections in hopes of controlling PR size. That said, this is very much still WIP. In particular, I need to decrease the size of this PR and tune parameters to avoid disrupting balance. My goal is not to rebalance vehicles but to improve the infrastructure upon which a good rebalancing might be built. 
> 
> 
> \# Current PR (1a) Progress:
> \- \[X\] Improved combustion formula with JSON engine customizability.
> \- \[X\] Improved rolling resistance and sinkage formula with JSON wheel and terrain customizability.
> \- \[X\] Improved traction formula with JSON wheel customizability.
> \- \[X\] Basic aerodynamics formula as placeholder.
> \- \[X\] Improved acceleration formula taking into account drag, rolling resistance, and maximum tractive force.
> \- \[\] Write balance/regression tests to evaluate new mechanics.
> - \[x\] Ensure reasonable fuel usage.
> - \[x\] Ensure reasonable engine power.
> - \[x\] Ensure reasonable acceleration.
> - \[x\] Ensure reasonable maximum/safe velocity.
> - \[x\] Ensure reasonable traction.
> - \[x\] Ensure reasonable rolling resistance.
> - \[x\] Ensure reasonable drag.
> - \[\] Ensure reasonable collisions.
> \- \[x\] Resolve bugs resulting from partial integration of floating point velocity.
> - \[x\] Collisions.
> - \[x\] Displayed Velocity.
> - \[x\] Cruise Control.
> - \[x\] Low Speed Driving
> \- \[\] Keep PR below 500 lines of code.
> \- \[x\] Test player vehicles for consistent performance before/after PR. (Minor change is acceptable, but major changes to usability should be avoided. e.g. Max speed of 1000/500tpt is functionally identical but safe speed of 20/10tpt is significant.)
> 
> \# Part 1: Dynamics and Combustion Engines
> 
> Combustion engines have very little JSON customizability and 'just work' via a mass of haphazard formulas. Simply improving the absolute basics of the system will have huge benefits. For instance, traction provides a means to limit the utility of large engines on small vehicles while drag can be tuned to prevent excessive maximum velocities.
> 
> \## Part 1a:
> 
> Terrain based traction and rolling resistance. Placeholder drag. Improved engine power and acceleration formulas. Physics based formulas where practical. JSON specification of Engine efficiency, Wheel traction and rolling resistance, and Terrain sinkage. 
> 
> \## Part 1b:
> 
> Improvements which can be independently developed from the base established by 1a.
> 
> \### Part 1b-I:
> 
> Improved collisions. (#23000, #20017, #23578)
> 
> \### Part 1b-II
> 
> Improved drag.
> 
> \### Part 1b-III
> 
> Decibel based noise system. (Lower noise for higher cylinder count.)
> 
> \### Part 1b-IV
> 
> Improved smoke system.
> 
> \### Part 1b-V
> 
> Improved handling system.
> 
> \## Part 1c:
> 
> Improved readability and styling of vehicle.cpp.
> 
> \## Part 1d: 
> 
> \### Part 1d-I
> 
> \#23123
> 
> \### Part 1d-II
> 
> \#20520
> 
> \# Part 2: Reactors, Electrical Engines, etc.
> 
> Reactors, electrical engines, and other devices will need an overhaul to maintain consistency with changes introduced in \`Part 1\`. In addition, there are a number of unresolved issues with the current systems. (#21874, #21964, #22191, #22077, #21215, #20321)
> 
> \# Part 3: Multitile Vehicle Parts
> 
> The ability for a single part to use multiple tiles would be useful for both current and future parts. It would allows treads to behave as expected. It would also be useful for \`Part 4\`. Multitile functionality would allow improvement of the flotation system and simplify the creation of a watertightness system.
> 
> I also intend to model armour and distance between the vehicle and the ground. This will resolve certain flaws discussed in #22025, #20847 and improve collision modeling. In particular, it will greatly improve modeling of a vehicle's ability to traverse very rough terrain. e.g. A pickup a quarter meter off the ground would be able to cross rocky terrain while a sports car 0.05 meters off the ground would become stuck.
> 
> \# Part 4: Boats
> 
> The vehicle code is littered with todos regarding a unified vehicle framework allowing for amphibious vehicles. Such a framework would be premature at this time; land vehicles barely have a unified framework themselves. However, it would make an excellent future goal.
> 
> \# Part 5: Turrets
> 
> Turrets may be seriously broken (#22541, #22512). I haven't look into turrets yet, but if I finish the previous parts it would be worthwhile to make sure turrets aren't broken in some non-obvious way.
> 
> \# Part 6: Modular Vehicle Parts
> 
> Allowing more flexibility in part scavenging, creation, and installation would be cool. Engines could have improved control systems attached, kitchens could have waffle irons installed, etc. However, this may not fit design goals and the previous 4 parts will provide many more options for it to utilize. It would be nice to have, but is far behind everything else in priority.
> 
> \# Part Null: What won't be included.
> 
> I do not intend to make JSON edits or add new content except as necessary to support code changes. Similarly, I won't be tweaking the vehicle menu except as necessary to maintain current functionality.

After that kind of thing lands, roadblocks just blocking roads would be pretty functional.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Mantar](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mantar/32/42_2.png) [@Mantar](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Mantar)\
**Post date:** [April 25, 2018, 9:25pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-the-benefit-of-having-a-base/15319/20 "2018-04-25T21:25:35Z")

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> [@kevin.granade](#):
>
> I’m not following how this nerfs vehicles, since the player can presumably just run away. Do you mean that the raiding parties make it unsafe to hang out (sleep, craft, read) in a vehicle in certain (all?) areas? Do they send out vehicular raiding parties to chase the player down?!?  
> More importantly, why does this not affect someone with a stationary base?

I’d like to see enemy factions do things like park two or three vehicles across a forest/swamp road or a bridge and try to stop players and shake them down for food or ammo or something.

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