# What is a monster? Body, Psyche, Soul, and Style

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [June 12, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739 "2013-06-12T03:07:51Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 17\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![GlyphGryph](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/glyphgryph/32/847_2.png) [@GlyphGryph](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GlyphGryph)\
**Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 3:07am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739/1 "2013-06-12T03:07:51Z")

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I’ve been thinking about ways to redesign monsters for a bit. Here’s what I’ve been thinking is important. This is mostly about relationships within the code, so probably not of general interest.

A monster is a collection of the following associations, as well as it’s current stats:

Body - A body represents the monsters base template, and the stats for it’s current incarnation. This is a Skeleton or a Shocker or a Zombie Dog. Whenever a monster dies and raises again, or changes into a new form, it gets a new body.  
Psyche - This is the monsters AI and behaviour. Limited by body. Can be swapped out under some circumstances.  
Soul - This is the monsters history. It’s own personal log and collection of stats and bits of info. Used for determining things like mutation odds and what it turns into, and may be used by the psyche for smarter monsters to check whether or not they recognize the player.  
Style - This describes the monsters available attacks and the strings that describe them, and is usually determined by the body. Psyche determines which of these attacks are used, but psyches can be used with different styles - a rust eater and a zombie dog would might have the same psyche but a different style, while a zombie dog and a wild dog may have the same style but a very different psyche.

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**Author:** ![Dzlan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/dzlan/32/82_2.png) [@Dzlan](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Dzlan)\
**Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 4:11am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739/2 "2013-06-12T04:11:45Z")

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Is this actually implemented? It sounds interesting…

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**Author:** ![Rivet](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/rivet/32/11_2.png) [@Rivet](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Rivet)\
**Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 5:06am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739/3 "2013-06-12T05:06:32Z")

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Modular monsters? I like it!  
This would seriously open up new doors for modding potential.

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**Author:** ![Slax](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/slax/32/5385_2.png) [@Slax](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Slax)\
**Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 5:39am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739/4 "2013-06-12T05:39:43Z")

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Would Psyche possibly cover dislikes? Or rather, enemies?  
Been thinking about monster in-fighting lately. Do zombies tick bears off if they get too close? I have a feeling they should.

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**Author:** ![GlyphGryph](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/glyphgryph/32/847_2.png) [@GlyphGryph](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GlyphGryph)\
**Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 6:05am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739/5 "2013-06-12T06:05:28Z")

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That would probably end up being another thing to track, allegiance, and it would take care of who you should and should not be hostile to.

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**Author:** ![AerialK7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@AerialK7](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/AerialK7)\
**Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 6:51am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739/6 "2013-06-12T06:51:45Z")

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> [@GlyphGryph](#):
>
> That would probably end up being another thing to track, allegiance, and it would take care of who you should and should not be hostile to.

Ghoul mask, makes you appear as a zombie at a distance

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**Author:** ![Rivet](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/rivet/32/11_2.png) [@Rivet](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Rivet)\
**Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 7:00am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739/7 "2013-06-12T07:00:42Z")

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> Ghoul mask, makes you appear as a zombie at a distance

Isn’t that what we have the zombie pheromone recipe for?

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**Author:** ![halberdsturgeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7ab992/32.png) [@halberdsturgeon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/halberdsturgeon)\
**Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 7:45am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739/8 "2013-06-12T07:45:31Z")

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Seems straightforward enough, although I’m not sure I understand the point of the soul component.

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**Author:** ![AerialK7](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@AerialK7](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/AerialK7)\
**Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 8:10am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739/9 "2013-06-12T08:10:27Z")

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[quote=“Rivet, post:7, topic:1739”]

> Ghoul mask, makes you appear as a zombie at a distance

Isn’t that what we have the zombie pheromone recipe for?[/quote]

But, its indefinite, but, has a shorter range then the pheromone?

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**Author:** ![vultures](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/vultures/32/69_2.png) [@vultures](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/vultures)\
**Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 10:16am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739/10 "2013-06-12T10:16:31Z")

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You have some very nice examples, and in plain styled language with tomes included in AD&D 3.5. Just remembered, them Necromancy pages - a breeze, and a chill afterwards.

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**Author:** ![Wanderer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a9a28c/32.png) [@Wanderer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Wanderer)\
**Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 11:02pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739/11 "2013-06-12T23:02:11Z")

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> [@halberdsturgeon](#):
>
> Seems straightforward enough, although I’m not sure I understand the point of the soul component.

Post-mortem of William Stevenson, 3-days Survivor

.  
.  
.

Killed by the Crazy Voltaic, Evolved Electric Zombie that killed 10 humans, 20 squirrels, 3 bears and a coyote.

…or…

"I screamed of rage. There was nothing more i could do. No more ammunition in my shotgun. No more good leg to stand up. Only a broken knife, and that defnitively wasn’t enough. I survived for a week, made a mistake and now, i would die…

…but at the three first days, i helped a dog, that was being mauled by zombies. I nursered, fed and even played with it. Never expected to see it again, retributing the favour."

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**Author:** ![DWC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f19dbf/32.png) [@DWC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/DWC)\
**Post date:** [June 12, 2013, 11:42pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739/12 "2013-06-12T23:42:17Z")

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I think it could be a good idea, but the soul part I don’t really understand the purpose for. Maybe for zombies to have randomly generated backgrounds that determine some of their properties, what items they drop and whatever?

Or perhaps zombies would just be humans with different psyche and style?

I’m not a coder, but it seems like monster variations could be handled more simply by copy-pasting entries and changing the relevant bits, unless there was some compelling gameplay reason to make entries procedurally generated.

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**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/cataclysmdda/original/1X/21b5d044e8473b25d0bf905d60477e25f6fbe0cf.png) [@system](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 3:15am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739/13 "2013-06-13T03:15:12Z")

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I think zombies should still have some base fears from when they are human.

Like running from animals like bears (please let me trap and chain 'em) or fire.

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**Author:** ![Wanderer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a9a28c/32.png) [@Wanderer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Wanderer)\
**Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 3:32am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739/14 "2013-06-13T03:32:32Z")

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> [@DWC](#):
>
> I think it could be a good idea, but the soul part I don’t really understand the purpose for. Maybe for zombies to have randomly generated backgrounds that determine some of their properties, what items they drop and whatever?

Nice idea, and it could depend of the area where he spawns as well! As said above, information relative to the monster. As how much he killed or if it has some sort of extra status with him(burning, freezing, infected, parasited), how much it done something, etc, etc…

I agree that it could be together with the body, but it’s neat to leave the informations in a different package.

> [@DWC](#):
>
> Or perhaps zombies would just be humans with different psyche and style?

And that open a lot of stuff to be made to humans, by extension player characters? So, someone could play with a different Body and Style, trying to survive as a squirrel or a bear?

Or perhaps more than one Body, with the player controlling a small horde of zombies?

With the Soul gathering information as the player goes on, we could have better post-mortem information for each character and a global status list for all characters combined?(how many monsters killed at all, how much walked, how many deaths…)

> [@DWC](#):
>
> I’m not a coder, but it seems like monster variations could be handled more simply by copy-pasting entries and changing the relevant bits, unless there was some compelling gameplay reason to make entries procedurally generated.

Simple, yes, but painful in the long run to mantain and check for bugs, and we already have enough bugs with the NPCs 😛

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**Author:** ![TheGrifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/278dde/32.png) [@TheGrifter](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheGrifter)\
**Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 6:11am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739/15 "2013-06-13T06:11:31Z")

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Can you add in these as JSON values and not CPP so we don’t have to compile?

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**Author:** ![DWC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f19dbf/32.png) [@DWC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/DWC)\
**Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 7:16am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739/16 "2013-06-13T07:16:52Z")

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This all does sound like a flexible system, changing up how a monster behaves would add some depth and challenge to the game.

I was thinking moose and deer are too benign in the game. In real life, moose are assholes and can be seriously dangerous, especially in the winter they get really belligerent. Wounded deer also beat up hunters all the time. Deer and moose alike in off-season can be annoyingly curious and nonchalant about people being around.

So the psyche trait could maybe determine how a creature acts in certain circumstances. Make them less predictable, so deciding to bludgeon that moose to death with your crowbar could have dire consequences depending on the circumstances.

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**Author:** ![Scheuche](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/858c86/32.png) [@Scheuche](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Scheuche)\
**Post date:** [June 13, 2013, 8:02am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/what-is-a-monster-body-psyche-soul-and-style/1739/17 "2013-06-13T08:02:39Z")

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[quote=“DWC, post:16, topic:1739”]This all does sound like a flexible system, changing up how a monster behaves would add some depth and challenge to the game.

I was thinking moose and deer are too benign in the game. In real life, moose are assholes and can be seriously dangerous, especially in the winter they get really belligerent. Wounded deer also beat up hunters all the time. Deer and moose alike in off-season can be annoyingly curious and nonchalant about people being around.

So the psyche trait could maybe determine how a creature acts in certain circumstances. Make them less predictable, so deciding to bludgeon that moose to death with your crowbar could have dire consequences depending on the circumstances.[/quote]

Awesome! 😃