# Vehicle controls are effectively redundant in the current meta. How do we address that?

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/vehicle-controls-are-effectively-redundant-in-the-current-meta-how-do-we-address-that/26131>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [March 23, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/vehicle-controls-are-effectively-redundant-in-the-current-meta-how-do-we-address-that/26131 "2021-03-23T21:30:43Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 4\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Tamior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/41988e/32.png) [@Tamior](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Tamior)\
**Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 9:30pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/vehicle-controls-are-effectively-redundant-in-the-current-meta-how-do-we-address-that/26131/1 "2021-03-23T21:30:43Z")

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The issue, in a nutshell, is this:  
Anything in this list [Flags - Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead](http://cdda-trunk.chezzo.com/flags/E_STARTS_INSTANTLY) _de facto_ effectively performs the same functions as “proper” vehicle controls ([Vehicle controls - Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead](http://cdda-trunk.chezzo.com/vehicle_controls)).  
This is an issue because quite a few items in that list are wa-a-ay lower tech (both in terms of crafting tools and materials requirements and by the virtue of being auto-learned as a recipe).

That’s not a _major_ issue, but it just feels quite out of place to have a higher-tech item that is, effectively, completely redundant.

So what would be the preferred way of addressing this?

- lower crafting requirements of vehicle controls to the point they are about the same “tech level” as oars/sail/etc
- limit some engine types to prevent them from working at all unless “proper” vehicle controls are installed
- do nothing (Homemade atomic tanks controled via oars go BRRRR!)
- something else?

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**Author:** ![mlangsdorf](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mlangsdorf/32/2462_2.png) [@mlangsdorf](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/mlangsdorf)\
**Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 10:38pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/vehicle-controls-are-effectively-redundant-in-the-current-meta-how-do-we-address-that/26131/2 "2021-03-23T22:38:36Z")

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Add a new flag, “MANUAL\_CONTROLS” for manual controls like oars, foot pedals, handrims, sails, and animal harnesses.

Vehicles that only have MANUAL\_CONTROLS can only be controlled if all the engines also have MANUAL\_CONTROLS. As soon as you have an engine that isn’t MANUAL\_CONTROLS, you need real controls.

Coding this is an exercise for anyone who is interested, or else I’ll throw it on my lengthy to-do list for something to do when I’m feeling frustrated.

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**Author:** ![Tamior](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/41988e/32.png) [@Tamior](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Tamior)\
**Post date:** [March 23, 2021, 10:45pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/vehicle-controls-are-effectively-redundant-in-the-current-meta-how-do-we-address-that/26131/3 "2021-03-23T22:45:41Z")

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I’ve been thinking about something similar, but here’s the problem:  
does that mean that literally any kind of an engine — even a small electrical engine on a homemade bike (or steam engine, for that matter)— requires welding equipment to use?

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**Author:** ![mlangsdorf](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mlangsdorf/32/2462_2.png) [@mlangsdorf](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/mlangsdorf)\
**Post date:** [March 24, 2021, 1:49pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/vehicle-controls-are-effectively-redundant-in-the-current-meta-how-do-we-address-that/26131/4 "2021-03-24T13:49:55Z")

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I don’t see why that’s an issue.

Alternately, add more support for vehicle parts that can be installed with bolts.