# Unfurn Changes To The Game

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944>\
**Category:** The Bunker\
**Created:** [July 20, 2018, 8:02am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944 "2018-07-20T08:02:57Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![Aabbcc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@Aabbcc](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Aabbcc)\
**Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 1:35am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/21 "2018-07-21T01:35:57Z")

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Yeah, that one is annoying. I mean, I get wanting to deepen the food preservation part of the game, but it creates waaay too much visual clutter right now.

It might be worthwhile to clump foodstuff together in the same stack in the UI if the difference in time left is minimal, because nobody is going to care about the difference between 1 year left and 1 year and 1 hour left.

That, or making that putting same-name food in the same container makes their spoilage equalize after a small amount of time.

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**Author:** ![dissociativity](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/dissociativity/32/4967_2.png) [@dissociativity](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/dissociativity)\
**Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 1:51am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/22 "2018-07-21T01:51:24Z")

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The game has options, make it easier if you want.  
Cataclysm can be made as easy or as hard as you would like.

I personally find the world feels significantly more alive now.

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**Author:** ![John\_Candlebury](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/john_candlebury/32/6437_2.png) [@John\_Candlebury](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/John_Candlebury)\
**Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 4:23am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/23 "2018-07-21T04:23:32Z")

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I agree, but for different reasons.

Most of the realism changes, instead of adding more difficulty or meaningfull changes or interesting interactions. Add more keystrokes to perform basic actions, or increase the IRL time required to do basic gameplay stuff while adding very little challenge.

My free time for gaming gets smaller and smaller, and in the limited time I can play this game, I rather do interesting things and not have to spend 10 minutes driving to a river source because my clothes need washing or having to travel half an overmap to find 4 charges of anesthetic.

* * *

Bit off topic but also:

If anyone has 10 dollars to spare, and is longing for something like the Cataclysm of old times (pre-letter named versions) try playing Caves of Qud.

It really reminds me of what this game was about before the simulationist vision set in.

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**Author:** ![Valiant](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/valiant/32/4788_2.png) [@Valiant](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valiant)\
**Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 5:13am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/24 "2018-07-21T05:13:09Z")

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> [@John\_Candlebury](#):
>
> My free time for gaming gets smaller and smaller, and in the limited time I can play this game, I rather do interesting things and not have to spend 10 minutes driving to a river source because my clothes need washing or having to travel half an overmap to find 4 charges of anesthetic.

It is entirely your problems that you want arcade-style fast-paced coffee-break roguelike while Cata is not this type of game.

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**Author:** ![TheMurderUnicorn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/themurderunicorn/32/5706_2.png) [@TheMurderUnicorn](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheMurderUnicorn)\
**Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 5:40am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/25 "2018-07-21T05:40:28Z")

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He said, telling the contributor what kind of game it is.

That’s exactly what the game was not that long ago. It’s evolving, and that’s why mods and options crop up. He doesn’t like filthy clothes and hey, look at that, he doesn’t have to play with filthy clothes.

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**Author:** ![Valiant](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/valiant/32/4788_2.png) [@Valiant](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valiant)\
**Post date:** [July 21, 2018, 5:59am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/26 "2018-07-21T05:59:25Z")

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I’m not having this “Contributor” tag doesn’t mean I didn’t contribute to the game too.

Don’t like something in a game? Go ahead and propose a change. Otherwise stop whining “It’s unfun, oh my!”.

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**Author:** ![loogie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/loogie/32/1201_2.png) [@loogie](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/loogie)\
**Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 2:55pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/27 "2018-08-14T14:55:30Z")

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The first aid change was definitely an issue (as someone who starts with a really bad day, and no skills, only traits). I can get by, but the infection is basically going to kill me no matter what unless i happen to find antibiotics, because nothing else remotely common will work (as far as i know). The new short term antibiotics are ok, but don’t solve anything, which to me is kind of pointless. Antibiotics are never “slows it down” it should at least have a small chance of removing infection, nevermind more or less halt it outright as long as you keep taking it.

My other issue is that infections don’t need to be that harsh. I’m all for a more time consuming, longer-term heal, but requiring the one or two items that can solve the problem results in a manic search for things before you die. I would suggest something like a “clean rag wash” every day for a while could either halt the progression, cleaning with disinfectant could have a small chance for a cure.

I think overall the biggest issue is the lack of info. I don’t really know how it actually changed, and what i’m meant to do now, maybe there are solutions to infections i don’t know about, etc. It would be nice to at least be informed of the change, and pointed in the right direction of what has changed.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 4:00pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/28 "2018-08-14T16:00:22Z")

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> [@loogie](#):
>
> The new short term antibiotics are ok, but don’t solve anything,

They absolutely solve it, they have a significant chance of curing the infection.

> [@loogie](#):
>
> My other issue is that infections don’t need to be that harsh.

You opted into a challenge scenario, and it got more challenging, that’s working as intended. If it’s too much to deal with now, most starts don’t come with an infection applied at the start, you can play one of those.

> [@loogie](#):
>
> I would suggest something like a “clean rag wash”

You don’t just have a dirty bite at the start of the really bad day scenario, you have a systemic infection. Cleaning the wound works to prevent infection, not stop it.

> [@loogie](#):
>
> I think overall the biggest issue is the lack of info.

We can definitely look into more feedback, but you already know the answers, look for antibiotics, so clearly it’s not that far off.

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**Author:** ![loogie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/loogie/32/1201_2.png) [@loogie](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/loogie)\
**Post date:** [August 14, 2018, 4:15pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/29 "2018-08-14T16:15:04Z")

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> [@kevin.granade](#):
>
> They absolutely solve it, they have a significant chance of curing the infection.

That is great, and essentially solves the problem (since they seem fairly easy to find), and to know they do have a chance to cure is great… but it might be worthwhile changing the description of the item, since it basically says “it won’t cure it, but it might slow it down”, which infers a 0% chance to cure

and thanks for the clarification of the “infected” term.

Also, did i read that correctly that first aids are supposed to have a method of curing infection in them?

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**Author:** ![Tad](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/tad/32/7468_2.png) [@Tad](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Tad)\
**Post date:** [November 6, 2018, 11:12pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/30 "2018-11-06T23:12:14Z")

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Expecting people who feel marginalized to be constructive while discussing the very issues that have caused them to feel marginalized in the 1st place is, well, it’s kind of the opposite of what you’re preaching.

Just a thought 😉

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**Author:** ![ExecutiveOdin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/a587f6/32.png) [@ExecutiveOdin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/ExecutiveOdin)\
**Post date:** [November 10, 2018, 1:18am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/31 "2018-11-10T01:18:13Z")

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I agree about the food preserving. I love building up a base and a stockpile of food during the first year and while I really don’t care that things like flour and jerky can go rotten now I am driven nuts by the massive list of different stacks of flour.  
Then last time I played they for whatever reason changed the menu controls. I have played this game so long I run entirely off muscle memory and it was seriously screwing with me and realizing I’d have to alter the controls back manually potentially every time I downloaded again until I saved the controls config I sorta lost enthusiasm.  
So I took another break and then checking the forum today I’m seeing even more unfun changes and some red flags. I might just be done.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [November 10, 2018, 3:18am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/32 "2018-11-10T03:18:19Z")

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> [@ExecutiveOdin](#):
>
> I am driven nuts by the massive list of different stacks of flour.

> <https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/26523>
>
> \#### Summary
> \`\`\`SUMMARY: Interface "Adaptively stack perishables based on remai…ning time before rot."\`\`\`
> 
> \#### Purpose of change
> Fixes #25744 
> Since the massive extension of perishable durations, it has become possible to amass huge numbers of perishables with similar rot times that nevertheless are displayed seperately. This change causes these items with similar rot times to stack, and stack more coarsely the further in the future the rot time is.
> 
> \#### Describe the solution
> Extracted the code to produced truncated durations ("1 year", "three months", "2 days" etc) and used it to bucket items based on remaining time until spoilage.
> 
> \#### Describe alternatives you've considered
> Replacing the stacking code with menu code that dynamically stacks the items would be preferable, but is a much more involved change.
> This uses a bucketing approach because the comparisons must be transitive. An approach where "items stack if they are within x% of each other" would be unstable and cause items to swap between stacks chaotically.
> 
> \#### Additional context
> Re-using the truncated time code minimises conflicts between stacks and displayed expiration times.

Tl;dr perishibles are now bucketed by remaining hours, days, weeks, seasons and years.  
Stl;dr perishables that will spoil ‘x years in future’ are grouped together.

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**Author:** ![Trigon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/trigon/32/2668_2.png) [@Trigon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Trigon)\
**Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 8:49pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/33 "2018-11-11T20:49:02Z")

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You can always start your own fork and do all the edits you want. I’m kind of sick of the complaints that the people coding are somehow trying to ruin everyone’s fun. It’s poor attitude to give to the people who donate so much time and effort for free. Just my two cents on this topic that I’m rather late to.

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**Author:** ![Erk](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/erk/32/3871_2.png) [@Erk](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Erk)\
**Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 9:50pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/34 "2018-11-11T21:50:42Z")

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Seconding that. I don’t like so many foods being perishable so I just installed the “fewer perishables” mod and voila. No complaints from me. Not only that, but the devs have generally been quite good at either reverting, improving, or making optional any changes that are really unpopular (like the red tint map memory)

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**Author:** ![ppanda0421](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/49beb7/32.png) [@ppanda0421](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/ppanda0421)\
**Post date:** [November 11, 2018, 10:29pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/35 "2018-11-11T22:29:49Z")

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@kevin.granade Not sure if this is/was the change causing a strange issue I’m now seeing. Recently I am seeing volumes that go way over the limit in a container. Eg. I have a locker which has a max volume of 2000. Now I see volumes of 6000/2000 in the same locker when the only thing I did was update to the latest experimental version. The volumes were all over the place. Some won’t allow me to go above the 2000 (which is correct for the locker) but other lockers just bypass that limit. In addition the amounts (stacks) look inaccurate so you cannot really see how much stock you have. For example, drop 1k amounts on the ground or to a container. The game converts it in stacks of say 500 (2), but eventually the numbers don’t add up. You only see the precise amounts when you pick them up. Perhaps the new system requires special flags/structures and the old data does not have those flags? Perhaps they were missed during save conversion?

On a more positive note, I really like the change where it gives you a very good idea of when something will expire. It allows you to plan in advance to prep your future food stockpiles.

Edit: I can show pictures or a video if you want to see what the issue is.

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**Author:** ![Eastwardrope91](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/eastwardrope91/32/3313_2.png) [@Eastwardrope91](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Eastwardrope91)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 12:11am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/36 "2018-11-12T00:11:37Z")

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I remember some of the phrases MiGo’s will says has to do with Kevin if I recall rightly it says “Kevin sacrifices gameplay for realism” I can’t remember the exact quote but I’ve heard them scream that repeatedly as they chased me down killing anything that comes near and as they tear me apart limb by limb. So someone agrees with you not sure where this quote comes from or what but it’s in the game.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 12:56am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/37 "2018-11-12T00:56:36Z")

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This change didn’t add a new system for managing stacking, it only adjusted the test that tells the code when two things should stack.

Regardless it sounds like a bug from what you describe, please open an [issue](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues).

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**Author:** ![Trigon](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/trigon/32/2668_2.png) [@Trigon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Trigon)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 1:20am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/38 "2018-11-12T01:20:14Z")

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I think that’s part of Crazy cataclysm and it’s shocker zombies. For the memes.

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**Author:** ![anonanon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@anonanon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/anonanon)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 9:22am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/39 "2018-11-12T09:22:57Z")

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I don’t like how picky they are  
they nerfed my spears the tool that was made because it was fast strong had reach didn’t take much training and was quick in battle was made weak super slow and fragile  
they don’t really want realism they just hate anything that makes the game any easier

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**Author:** ![anonanon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/96bed5/32.png) [@anonanon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/anonanon)\
**Post date:** [November 12, 2018, 9:27am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/unfurn-changes-to-the-game/15944/40 "2018-11-12T09:27:18Z")

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plague nymphs are like zombie roaches basicly it goes fresh food\>rotten food\>plague nymphs\>roach stones\>roaches\>wolf spiders

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