# Throwing martial arts

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Tags:** trainwreck\
**Created:** [June 23, 2018, 6:51am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757 "2018-06-23T06:51:42Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 1\
**Showing post:** 8

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**Author:** ![VictorSegall](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/victorsegall/32/2551_2.png) [@VictorSegall](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/VictorSegall)\
**Post date:** [June 23, 2018, 2:13pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/8 "2018-06-23T14:13:45Z")

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> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/39):
>
> Anyone can throw a rock at someone’s head. Even most primates.

Most will miss. Training consistently teaches to aim for center mass. Practically a maxim in either combat or game hunting.

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/39):
>
> I don’t think there’s a way to limit a weapon to a skill level.

Not limitations.

Improvement and accentuation.

[Code for martial techniques](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/search?q=technique&unscoped_q=technique) is made for adding onto primitive actions that average survivors can do. Trained throwing styles can be defined as arts, with the benefits as techniques. Once that is in place, basic throwing of all kinds stays in, but has its effectiveness reduced.

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/39):
>
> The only real way to make slings inaccurate with low throwing skill is to make them generally inaccurate and hope that high skill cancels out the dispersion

Pretty much how it works now, for all projectiles.

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/39):
>
> I’d accept that perhaps the best slingers can perhaps outrange a bow, but I find it fairly hard to believe they could match the accuracy at that range.

On average, you’re right. In flight, rocks drift less than arrows. Bows aim more easily than slings. If that means slings have higher dispersion stat in CDDA, then it works out in the wash.

For non-augmented humans, we can probably settle for [100m as maximum effective range](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i94gbMF_X3U), with experts having 1m dispersion at that. Open to real data, of course. Effective range to plausibly hit for significant damage; not the furthest down range a projectile can be sent.

[Slingshots](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2V93LQQXFR8) are [accurate](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ieWrWLjii0), [even](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cuw34cXTvkk) at [range](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_qutZkGYOwM). I’d be comfortable comparing their accuracy to most bows. They aren’t hitting anywhere near as hard as bows, though. They’re small game weapons. They hit very hard at short range, but their pellet is small.

[Slings](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kw2E9lhw0Bo) are also accurate at range, with larger shot, and slower throws. [Staff slings](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tusiNAY7Utc) go farther, less accurately.

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/38):
>
> Sling shouldn’t be less accurate.

I meant we shouldn’t make slings less accurate than they already are. This wasn’t a comparison to bow accuracy.

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/38):
>
> Bow shouldn’t outperform the best throwers. Bow should outperform most throwers.

Because bows are more accurate, the average bow shooter should do more averaged damage than the average slinger. The bowman hits more often with less skill. However, sling per-shot damage should be higher, and the best slinger should be nearly as accurate as the bowman, so the best slinger should do more averaged damage than the best bowman.

It should be harder to become the best slinger than it is to become the best bowman.

Exceptions are okay.

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/39):
>
> I could understand making slinging somehow specialised, but I don’t think throwing in general needs to be special.

[Throwing blades](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TfBTUgZwmg8) is more dangerous to the thrower than slinging is. Doing it effectively is just as challenging.

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/39):
>
> Especially when the character can pick up a bow, grenade, rifle, sword, etc. and use it perfectly with no prior training or experience.

Not perfectly.

We have [techniques for swords](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/blob/562faf3a23142745b88478c2fd2d5179174a66a2/data/mods/Medieval_Stuff/techniques.json).

Can’t rightly compare these to guns and explosives. Guns should be more powerful with less skill. So are mininukes.

From thread opening post:

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/1):
>
> So one of the blockers for version .D is throwing being op, and the debate got mired down on tangents about slings and so forth.

This is why we need to branch throwing styles off of basic throwing.

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/1):
>
> So, let’s take this one step at a time and start with how much damage a thrown object can do when thrown unassisted and work from there. The upper limit for a throw ing would probably be an mba baseball player, able to throw at 90 to 100 miles an hour.

This example should apply to survivors throwing any object that isn’t a defined weapon. Trying to apply it to the weapons is where the tangents are.

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