# Throwing martial arts

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Tags:** trainwreck\
**Created:** [June 23, 2018, 6:51am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757 "2018-06-23T06:51:42Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 3

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:28am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/42 "2018-06-24T02:28:42Z")

</div>

Yeah, now find me a martial art that includes throwing as a main technique.

Google isn’t a data source.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![VictorSegall](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/victorsegall/32/2551_2.png) [@VictorSegall](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/VictorSegall)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:29am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/43 "2018-06-24T02:29:28Z")

</div>

I never said “main technique”. I used “technique” in the CDDA technical sense. “Tec” in the source code comments.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Litppunk](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/litppunk/32/409_2.png) [@Litppunk](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Litppunk)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:30am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/44 "2018-06-24T02:30:21Z")

</div>

Eh, its the most recently relevent thing I’ve been thinking about, at those levels, were talking taking it into account to hit asprin pills.

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/75):
>
> What are your thoughts on how to prevent those issues?

Start with a simple post thresh lvl bonus to a newly created precision\_bonus, On succesful precision activate weapon\_thrown\_special. From there it is handled purely by the weapon, and any creature resistances to those. Some weapons can opt to have a precision\_fail effects of the same caliber.

Later, or as its added the ability to tip the scales/chance to the players choice, using the characters Precision towards success, or intentional failure (hitting the crasture with the handle/ blunt end) or have 3+ possibles at a later date, if its deeemed desireable. And of coarse could be expanded and tweaked EVEN further, but at that point would likely start to feel like bloat.

…  
ugh… if we go the route of advanced throwing being treated as a martial art, then it needs to FEEL different than a martial art, full of auto effects, and if im not mistaken, based almosted exclusively, on having martial arts or not, not the weapon involved (correct me if Im wrong, i’ve not even done more then touch martial arts in-game yet)  
And advanced throwing, is more dependent on the item, and the throwers ability to get the desired effect from it.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Aabbcc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@Aabbcc](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Aabbcc)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:31am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/45 "2018-06-24T02:31:06Z")

</div>

Apart from my dislike for the double skills just to throw things, for which I have already commented at length, a martial arts approach is _inflexible_ and would be an un-feature as far as playability goes.

The only way it can cope with different effects for different weapons is by changing between martial arts. Not only there’s a delay on ‘always on’ buffs starting up, but having to change martial arts every time you feel like, say, throwing a stick to stun rather than a knife to deal more damage, would get annoying _fast_.

This would also gate special effects behind books. Since throwing would be presumably nerfed, damage-wise, this would leave throwing as an unviable skill unless you got lucky and found a relevant book.

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/86):
>
> I never said “main technique”. I used “technique” in the CDDA technical sense. “Tec” in the source code comments.

Find me a martial art who’s throwing weapon technique is in any way special, different in some way to any other skilled individual in the same weapon but not of that martial art, warranting a special effect or bonus.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![VictorSegall](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/victorsegall/32/2551_2.png) [@VictorSegall](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/VictorSegall)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:34am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/46 "2018-06-24T02:34:16Z")

</div>

Already showed a style in which all 4 primary weapons are such, and gave example.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Litppunk](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/litppunk/32/409_2.png) [@Litppunk](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Litppunk)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:34am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/47 "2018-06-24T02:34:17Z")

</div>

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/88):
>
> Find me a martial art who’s throwing weapon technique is in any way special, warranting a special effect or bonus.

This. This is why Im saying it needs to be handled more on the weapons side of things, and the strength its thrown with.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Litppunk](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/litppunk/32/409_2.png) [@Litppunk](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Litppunk)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:35am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/48 "2018-06-24T02:35:12Z")

</div>

Where? when? What was it? how was it’s throwing any different?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![VictorSegall](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/victorsegall/32/2551_2.png) [@VictorSegall](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/VictorSegall)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:35am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/49 "2018-06-24T02:35:42Z")

</div>

Here, today, Okichitaw.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:36am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/50 "2018-06-24T02:36:01Z")

</div>

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/86):
>
> I never said “main technique”. I used “technique” in the CDDA technical sense. “Tec” in the source code comments.

Right so… which realworld martial arts have throwing weapon techniques?

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/87):
>
> Eh, its the most recently relevent thing I’ve been thinking about, at those levels, were talking taking it into account to hit asprin pills.

I guess, if you’re trying to do that from 5 feet away then that’s a neat trick, but it’s not useful in combat.

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/89):
>
> Already showed a style in which all 4 primary weapons are such, and gave example.

That’s a martial art that uses throwable weapons in melee, it doesn’t include actually throwing weapons.

On throwing weapon special effects, I still think the method I outlined earlier would be the easiest to implement and most intuitive.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Aabbcc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@Aabbcc](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Aabbcc)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:36am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/51 "2018-06-24T02:36:17Z")

</div>

No, you showed a martial arts that specializes in four weapons that can be thrown. You have not proved, in any way, that the way it throws those weapons is in any way special.

Someone of that martial art throwing a spear and some dedicated medieval LARP’er are going to throw it the exact same way.

So why is this martial art warranting special effects when it throws weapons? Why would they be different than those that a ninjutsu specialist has? Or one doing medieval fighting?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:37am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/52 "2018-06-24T02:37:04Z")

</div>

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/94):
>
> Someone of that martial art throwing a spear and some dedicated medieval LARP’er are going to throw it the exact same way.

Hang on, can we add LARP as a martial art? I’m not sure what it would do, but it would be hilarious.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![VictorSegall](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/victorsegall/32/2551_2.png) [@VictorSegall](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/VictorSegall)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:37am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/53 "2018-06-24T02:37:55Z")

</div>

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/95):
>
> Hang on, can we add LARP as a martial art? I’m not sure what it would do, but it would be hilarious.

It would swing wildly and stumble a lot.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Litppunk](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/litppunk/32/409_2.png) [@Litppunk](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Litppunk)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:40am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/54 "2018-06-24T02:40:42Z")

</div>

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/95):
>
> Hang on, can we add LARP as a martial art? I’m not sure what it would do, but it would be hilarious.

Agreed, but it would have the same effects on throwing as the throwing arts, which is aparently none.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![VictorSegall](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/victorsegall/32/2551_2.png) [@VictorSegall](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/VictorSegall)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:40am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/55 "2018-06-24T02:40:48Z")

</div>

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/94):
>
> So why is this martial art warranting special effects when it throws weapons? Why would they be different than those that a ninjutsu specialist has? Or one doing medieval fighting?

Because the art’s training works on the specific weapons, same as with the arts already in.

Greek grappling is also in the Medieval mod. Greece has a sling style.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Litppunk](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/litppunk/32/409_2.png) [@Litppunk](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Litppunk)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:42am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/56 "2018-06-24T02:42:22Z")

</div>

How does the sling style tie in with the martial art its used in, and how would that change anything from a skilled slinger?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:42am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/57 "2018-06-24T02:42:25Z")

</div>

“Way of the Dweeb” Minus 50% to NPC fear levels.

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/98):
>
> Because the art’s training works on the specific weapons, same as with the arts already in.
> 
> Greek grappling is also in the Medieval mod. Greece has a sling style.

Yes but those are for melee, just because you get good at hititng someone with a longbow doesn’t mean you’re good at archery.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Aabbcc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@Aabbcc](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Aabbcc)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:44am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/58 "2018-06-24T02:44:32Z")

</div>

_facepalm_

STOP. EVADING. THE. QUESTION.

What makes the amerindian reenactment throw spears differently than medieval reenactment? Same weapon, different martial arts.  
How would a pankration specialist use a sling differently than a caveman reenactor? Same weapon, one doesn’t even have a martial arts.

We can easily provide evidence that different martial arts punch differently, defend differently, use their weapons differently even when they are using the same weapon.

You have yet provided anything that says they _throw_ differently.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Litppunk](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/litppunk/32/409_2.png) [@Litppunk](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Litppunk)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:47am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/59 "2018-06-24T02:47:52Z")

</div>

I would not argue a martial art of the bow after I saw this earlier today when looking into my own tangent. Bows having a martial art would be awesome. Not sure if it would have any effect on SHOOTing the bow other than less penalty for movements before shooting.

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/101):
>
> You have yet provided anything that says they _throw_ differently.

Please give any evidence that throwing should be handled with martial arts mechanic rather than with calculation of stegth and weapon specials.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![VictorSegall](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/victorsegall/32/2551_2.png) [@VictorSegall](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/VictorSegall)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:49am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/60 "2018-06-24T02:49:12Z")

</div>

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/99):
>
> How does the sling style tie in with the martial art its used in, and how would that change anything from a skilled slinger?

Greek slinging is specific to slings.

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/101):
>
> STOP. EVADING. THE. QUESTION.

Stop reasking.

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/101):
>
> What makes the amerindian reenactment throw spears differently than medieval reenactment? Same weapon, different martial arts.

If you want style specific weapon variants, that’s the easy part. Don’t blame me for your unwillingness to have diverse throwing weapons.

Could have geeked out the same way about swords when there was only a generic sword.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Aabbcc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@Aabbcc](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Aabbcc)\
**Post date:** [June 24, 2018, 2:50am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757/61 "2018-06-24T02:50:29Z")

</div>

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/102):
>
> Please give any evidence that throwing should be handled with martial arts mechanic rather than with calculation of stegth and weapon specials.

Err… I’m arguing **against** the proposal of using a martial arts, from _several_ angles. This is about the second time you’ve quoted me while actually arguing against someone else.

> [@Throwing debate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-debate/15729/103):
>
> If you want style specific weapon variants, that’s the easy part. Don’t blame me for your unwillingness to have diverse throwing weapons.
> 
> Could have geeked out the same way about swords when there was only a generic sword.

So you’re not going to do any work in supporting your argument. Ok. Can we all move on from it then?

[Previous page](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757.md?page=2)

[Next page](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/throwing-martial-arts/15757.md?page=4)