# The Mutation Re-Creation Project!
**URL:** https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599
**Category:** The Drawing Board
**Created:** [January 29, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599 "2019-01-29T19:25:18Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@psyxypher](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/psyxypher)
#### Post date: [January 29, 2019, 7:25pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/1 "2019-01-29T19:25:18Z")
Hey there Survivors! Ever thought that Mutagen was too much of a gamble to ever be worth it? Are you someone who save-scums because of that? Ever thought that it was too easy to get a bunch of powerful mutations and become near unstoppable?
This thread is for you; I aim to overhaul aspects of the system to make Mutations worth it without making them overpowered. I plan to make bad mutations better by adding minor benefits and make good mutations have hidden costs like increased maintenance. You can still be a super-mutant, but now the opportunity costs will stack up.
I also plan for Mutagenic Synergy, or having certain bad/mixed mutations makes your good mutations better. A good example is having Webbed Hands make your Claws/Talons deal a little more damage, with the justification being that your hands are better adapted to having those claws now.
Finally, some new Mutations may be added and some trees will be changed around. Elf-A, Raptor, Lupine and Feline were identified as good candidates for improvement.
Please remember that I cannot change anything hard coded, at least on my own. I’m dying to hear your thoughts and suggestions.
[The official Google Document, which goes more in depth.](https://docs.google.com/document/d/17YglVgMRG5UxWS6a_Rjc6RCxo-eWaex96W3NA0fQoE0/edit?usp=sharing)
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### Author:  [@Medi\_Ding](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Medi_Ding)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2019, 1:49am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/2 "2019-01-30T01:49:44Z")
Manually activated adrenaline would be cool.
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### Author:  [@Trigon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Trigon)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2019, 2:06am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/3 "2019-01-30T02:06:39Z")
Can you add hibernation to insect mutation tree? Because seriously it’s always bothered me that only bears can hibernate when insects are the most common hibernating creatures on the planet.
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### Author:  [@psyxypher](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/psyxypher)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2019, 2:30am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/4 "2019-01-30T02:30:45Z")
Not sure about that. I am going to take a look at Insect, though.
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### Author:  [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2019, 4:15am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/5 "2019-01-30T04:15:48Z")
This sounds great and glorious. Me likely. I hope this idea comes to full fruitation.
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### Author:  [@Umbra.Animo](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Umbra.Animo)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2019, 4:44am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/6 "2019-01-30T04:44:25Z")
one idea to really work on is chimera
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### Author:  [@Medi\_Ding](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Medi_Ding)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2019, 6:58am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/7 "2019-01-30T06:58:45Z")
I think you can add hibernation to the insect tree by doing two things and possibly three based on your knowledge on insect behavior:
First, go to the “threshreq” object in the hibernation object, and then add “THRESH\_INSECT” to it, making sure to separate the strings with a comma. Second, go to “category” and put in “INSECT” in a similar manner.
Third, adjust the prerequisites. There are two prerequisite arrays, “prereqs” and “prereqs2”. As long as you have at least one of the mutations in each prerequisite array, you will be able to get the mutation. Right now, “prereqs” contains “HEAVYSLEEPER2” and “prereqs2” contains “FAT”.
I don’t think insects have either of these traits, but I’m not sure, since I’m not a biologist. In case insects are neither heavy sleepers nor fat-storing creatures, then for the sake of example, lets just state the insect counterpart of “HEAVYSLEEPER2” as “A”, and the insect counterpart of “FAT” as “B”. Add “A” and “B” to the prerequisite arrays as needed.
So I think the object should end up looking like this (changes in bold italics):
{
“type” : “mutation”,
“id” : “HIBERNATE”,
“name” : “Hibernation”,
“points” : 3,
“description” : “You’ve developed the ability to stockpile calories and then sleep for extended periods of time.”,
“valid” : false,
“prereqs” : [“HEAVYSLEEPER2” **_, “A”_**],
“prereqs2” : [“FAT” **_, “B”_**],
“threshreq” : [“THRESH\_URSINE” **_, “THRESH\_INSECT”_**],
“category” : [“URSINE” **_, “INSECT”_**],
“active” : true,
“cost” : 0
}
I don’t know how to add entirely new mutations, like some insect metabolism mutation, but I hope this helped.
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### Author:  [@KiBoy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KiBoy)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2019, 8:24am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/8 "2019-01-30T08:24:49Z")
I am all game for making mutations more of a double-edged sword, but only if this has some benefits, like maybe adding a way to gain specific mutations and alleviate the randomness somewhat.
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### Author:  [@Invalid\_Username](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Invalid_Username)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2019, 10:49am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/9 "2019-01-30T10:49:22Z")
Shadowrun taught me that most valuable of lessons. Never trust a bug-morph.
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### Author:  [@psyxypher](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/psyxypher)
#### Post date: [January 30, 2019, 3:37pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/10 "2019-01-30T15:37:58Z")
Chimera is unlikely to get any buffs, other than the removal of Genetic Chaos. If anything, Chimera will become even harder to feed due to this. The idea of removing Carnivore might come up (IMO, such a creature should be able to feed off anything).
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### Author:  [@psyxypher](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/psyxypher)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2019, 4:11pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/11 "2019-02-01T16:11:34Z")
## Insect Overhaul!
Alright, so Insect is often seen as one of the trees that gets the shaft, partly due to the fact it teases you with the proposition of becoming a Queen and also because many of its Post-Thresh mutations are undesirable, the biggest two being Butterfly Wings (which doesn’t quite give the advantages to balance out that nasty -4 Dodge Malus) and Insect Arms (which doesn’t give you anything worth the cost). Proboscis also sucks (even the game acknowledges this, giving it a -4 bonus).
IMO, Insect’s problem is that it hasn’t figured out what type of Insect it wants to be. Pre-Thresh it’s a predatory insect and Post-Thresh it’s a freaking butterfly. I think it should stay an ambush predator-type insect post-thresh, potentially getting some laterally evolved traits (Butterfly Wings, Proboscis, Biosilicified Armor, making Insect Limbs act like a discount Tentacle Hand mutation). Base it off a a Preying Mantis. Mantises are to Insects what Bats are to mammals; utterly fabulous.
Thoughts?
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### Author:  [@Umbra.Animo](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Umbra.Animo)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/12 "2019-02-01T16:28:15Z")
personally i also dislike how the new limbs mutations work and would say that after some time with them the character with them would be able to control the limbs efectivale and while it give more benefits like faster crafting or reloading since you have more arms. personally i would go as far as letting more armor be worn and more weapons but i don’t know how hard that would be to code
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### Author:  [@Trigon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Trigon)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2019, 4:47pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/13 "2019-02-01T16:47:41Z")
I definitely agree. Currently I only use insect for pre-threshold mutations because every post threshold mutation is awful imo. I like the idea of keeping it as a strong rush down option with some utility enhancements. (The dragonfly wings are underrated imo.)
Basing it off the mantis makes me think of the post thresh being having insect arms with actual hands on the end, but also a super powerful cutting attack from giant friggin mantis arms. Obviously it would mess up your ability to wear some torso stuff but I think it would actually have a chance to be worth it for the aforementioned melee, rush down, powerhouse playstyle.
Overall I love it. Yeah.
EDIT: If you’re still interested in adding hibernation to insects you could make it first require cold blooded, since insects hibernate via temperature dormancy (except eusocial insects that create larders and just camp out in their hive/burrow.) I believe cold blooded is already in the insect tree as well which would help with the integration.
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### Author:  [@Junknown](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Junknown)
#### Post date: [February 1, 2019, 5:21pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/14 "2019-02-01T17:21:05Z")
Sounds petty good to me.
> [@psyxypher](#):
>
> Insect’s problem is that it hasn’t figured out what type of Insect it wants to be.
This sums up the biggest problem Insect has; a lack of clear identity. Currently Insect is a mashup of everything from butterflies to scorpions (which aren’t even insects in the first place). Basing the tree around mantises seems like a good idea and the mental image of playing as a mantis-man seems very appealing.
On a side note I actually found that insect isn’t that bad if you avoid the very bad mutations, but getting even one of them really messes up your character.
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### Author:  [@Turtleoverlord](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Turtleoverlord)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2019, 6:15pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/15 "2019-02-02T18:15:24Z")
I’ve never really lasted more than 8 days in-game I usually tested the alpha and medical mutations with Dev mode using heavy power armor and powering it with and Advanced ups chitin skin I actually survived a figth WITH a chicken walker and destroyed him with a frying pan 😃
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### Author:  [@psyxypher](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/psyxypher)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2019, 7:01pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/16 "2019-02-02T19:01:49Z")
That was from the Power Armor, not anything else. No mutation can (currently) give you the abilities or protection needed to block/dodge bullets. At best, you can survive being shot.
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### Author:  [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)
#### Post date: [February 2, 2019, 9:08pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/17 "2019-02-02T21:08:49Z")
That gave me an idea, which might be excessive depending on just how it’s done. But it answers the identity problem:
Just make multiple insect-like mutation trees.
I have no clue on how hard it would be to do that, and if it would be realistically done, but it seems like a good idea.
We could have 2 or 3 insect mutation trees, and split the scorpion one off it. Since, like you said, scorpions are insects. I don’t quite understand why people get that mixed up so much. They are arachnids.
If we have a few of different mammals, why not a few different bugs?
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### Author:  [@crazykiddeath](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/crazykiddeath)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2019, 5:45am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/18 "2019-02-03T05:45:39Z")
Tfw you go down the scorpion branch but don’t get the stinging tail trait 😛
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### Author:  [@Medi\_Ding](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Medi_Ding)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2019, 9:02am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/19 "2019-02-03T09:02:57Z")
Hey, at least you can still wear pants, even if you end up needing to craft the XL underwear. Just pad it with kevlar and you’ll be fine. I’m not sure how you would deal with the bulging eyes mutation, though.
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### Author:  [@psyxypher](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/psyxypher)
#### Post date: [February 3, 2019, 5:38pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-mutation-re-creation-project/18599/20 "2019-02-03T17:38:29Z")
Alright, I’m at the point where I start changing up trees now. Any suggestions? Other than making Medical a bit crazier and tougher, I’m really not sure where to go.
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