# The Lower Z-Levels

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-lower-z-levels/27709>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [March 16, 2022, 5:30pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-lower-z-levels/27709 "2022-03-16T17:30:22Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 6\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![potato\_guy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/potato_guy/32/11749_2.png) [@potato\_guy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/potato_guy)\
**Post date:** [March 16, 2022, 5:30pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-lower-z-levels/27709/1 "2022-03-16T17:30:22Z")

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currently the most interesting level is the main over map (z-level 0? 1?)  
but there is pickaxes and jackhammers and stuff, for if you do want to build a underground base/bunker  
as far as i can tell out of the small amount of code ive looked at, only giant naked-mole rats and dark wyrms can dig through rock i think that there should not only be more creatures that can dig through rocks to make it more dangerous, but also there should be hollow spaces/pockets undeground, maybe even caves . if only for the sake of realism maybe the blob affected viruses? those ones that can eat rocks or maybe (i just googled this) supposedly sea urchins can dig through rocks, and a species of bee, and some kind of worm which could have massive version that present dangers to mining,  
it would be cool if you found like glowing underground fungi, and weird creatures that have never seen anything that comes from the surface, but those are just ideas

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**Author:** ![Abchiptop](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/abchiptop/32/12056_2.png) [@Abchiptop](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Abchiptop)\
**Post date:** [March 18, 2022, 7:18pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-lower-z-levels/27709/2 "2022-03-18T19:18:19Z")

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In experimental, there’s a few more diggers - I believe the mole crickets can dig.

Additionally, we have caves that have a small underground, and beneath mines can be some sprawling caverns.

Subways are full of !!FUN!! Subterranean threats as well. Some of the newer critters are particularly run ending if you’re not prepared for them.

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**Author:** ![NetSysFire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/97f17d/32.png) [@NetSysFire](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/NetSysFire)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 5:37am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-lower-z-levels/27709/3 "2022-03-19T05:37:14Z")

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> it would be cool if you found like glowing underground fungi, and weird creatures that have never seen anything that comes from the surface, but those are just ideas

We already have some sort of implicit lore around that. See [Expanding the Underground](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/expanding-the-underground/27457)

I think one thing I _might_ do before the release is adding some more map extras to subway tunnels so we could have tunnels which are flooded (well, at least one overmap tile of them) or where trash has been disposed of.

Edit: One thing I’d also like to see would be bumblebee nests. We have giant bees, so we should also have giant flying pandas.

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**Author:** ![AcidAntOnAMinefield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a4c791/32.png) [@AcidAntOnAMinefield](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/AcidAntOnAMinefield)\
**Post date:** [March 19, 2022, 8:33am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-lower-z-levels/27709/4 "2022-03-19T08:33:47Z")

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I’d suggest to double think the idea of adding more “bugs” - that is something that needs to be more carefully thought through, considering most of the currently existing ones are impossible to deal with or to run away from - mainly pertaining to the non-hulk variants of them. Especially the fact they’re not balanced - some bugs are hostile to zombies, others aren’t, and this makes no sense whatsoever. I think “bugs” in general should always be hostile towards zombies and feral humans, period. They’re mutants, not zombie bugs - which is the same logic as the Experimental Mutants being hostile towards zombies. Using the “but the blob!” excuse to justify it seems cheap, seeing “lore wise” everything (including the survivor) would be infected by “the blob”, thus nothing should really be hostile towards the player, by that logic.

Wasps, Mosquitoes, Dragonflies and Bees need some rebalancing too in regards to them having _all of the abilities_. Something the size of a “dog” shouldn’t be as nimble or fast as they are, and surely their “impaling” (or similar ability) needs to be severely nerfed, because it is essentially a guaranteed hit with a low “cool down” time and no miss chance, which is something I’ve tested and whenever they are to use said ability, they **always** hit.

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**Author:** ![NetSysFire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/97f17d/32.png) [@NetSysFire](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/NetSysFire)\
**Post date:** [March 20, 2022, 8:38am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-lower-z-levels/27709/5 "2022-03-20T08:38:54Z")

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I was a bit unclear in referring to the fact that bumblebees usually reside in holes in the ground. Not everything needs to be out to kill you. Even in real life, 99% of the bumblebees you encounter are quite docile and peaceful (as long as you do not poke their nest) giant flying balls of fuzz would be fun.

Another building I can think of which could make use of Z-levels are car parks since they may even have an underground level.

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**Author:** ![potato\_guy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/potato_guy/32/11749_2.png) [@potato\_guy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/potato_guy)\
**Post date:** [March 27, 2022, 12:08am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-lower-z-levels/27709/6 "2022-03-27T00:08:53Z")

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i mean threats to your base not specific overmap tiles that have undergound threats