The Future of NPCs

[ribblle]

I think the place to start is defining NPC behaviors according to some broad personality archtypes. “Crazy” NPC’s can default to mad max behaviour. Paranoid NPC’s set up and guard a perimeter. Leaders try to recruit others.

Interacting with NPC’s should be as much about the psychological health system as anything else. People emotions should be pretty important in this kind of scenario (keeping people calm rather then trigger happy, jocular rather then high as the clouds etc), and you could set up a chatting system fairly easily if you use a degree of abstraction.

This thread delves into it, i think it’s still applicable to catacylsm. Basically use descriptions like “he humbly tells you how he built this murder truck, drawling his words” rather then trying to write realistic speech.

[Solusphere]

While it’s a minor point, I’d just like to note that currently, most mutations have an “ugliness” rating, that affects your relations with normal humans. Now, this gets a bit wonky when it’s possible for other NPCs you meet to have mutations that are just as hideous or even largely identical. It’s a bit questionable for a raptor mutant to be terrified of you because of all your hideous raptor mutations. Basically what I’m saying is that there might need to be some changes made to the existing mutation ugliness system.

[psyxypher]

While it’s a minor point, I’d just like to note that currently, most mutations have an “ugliness” rating, that affects your relations with normal humans. Now, this gets a bit wonky when it’s possible for other NPCs you meet to have mutations that are just as hideous or even largely identical. It’s a bit questionable for a raptor mutant to be terrified of you because of all your hideous raptor mutations. Basically what I’m saying is that there might need to be some exceptions made to the existing mutation ugliness system

From what I’ve been told, some NPCs are “Mutant Lovers”, and don’t care about the Visibility rating granted by mutations, while others don’t care about the ugliness rating granted by any traits/mutations.

[tarburst98]

what about a “similarity” rating? in other words, if you have ugly or pretty or anything it checks which category you and the NPC have the most mutations in (same way it checks for threshold eligibility?) and if your top level mutations are the same then you get a bonus to relations with them. so you, a post-threshold raptor mutant would talk to another NPC that has raptor as their primary mutation list and you get a bonus to how they feel about you.

[smichaels]

I must say, there are quite a few good ideas here, and it’s my understanding that NPCs’ behavior hasn’t substantially changed in a while. I have a nearly month-long winter break coming up and I’d be glad to spend some of it working on revamping NPCs to the best of my ability, if people would be interested.

Is there anywhere with a complete list of the current issues with NPCs? I could start a thread or a meta-issue on Github to get some input.

[Cyrano_7]

@smichaels You can search issues by label and there is a NPC label. https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3ANPC

If you want you can further filter those by milestones for the next stable release even https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3ANPC+milestone%3A0.D

[dieselriot]

I think right now my biggest issue with npcs is how incompetent they are in melee fighting. Early game my combat strategy is usually to start running, hit a zombie, retreat and repeat. Works very well with a fast weapon or the quick trait.

If I have a friendly NPC with me and we have to face a zombie, they’ll usually stop dead in their tracks and start mindlessly hitting it. That leaves me two options: Let the NPC fight it by themselves, or also mindlessly hitting it (and getting hit a lot in the process).

I’m not a coder or into coding, but I think an option in the combat commands to make them behave similarly, as in hitting and retreating, moving while fighting, etc; would not be too difficult to implement, since other creatures such as dogs have similar combat behavior.

That maybe combined with them having the ability to run should probably be the priority, at least in my opinion. Maybe in the future they could be smart enough to try to lead the zombies into nearby furniture or bushes, but I don’t know how practical or efficient that would be.

Edit: Okay, so I noticed that they actually do attack while retreating sometimes, just mostly not and certainly not indoors, from what I’ve seen at least.

[mentos046]

Do you have anything with reach attacks? You can make a knife spear from scrap metal or steel chunks, and the stuff from tearing down a curtain. It won’t make the NPCs run away, but it will allow you to help, without endangering yourself.

[dieselriot]

That’s some life changing advice. I didn’t even know about reach attacks, the game doesn’t seem to mention it on the item description, or maybe I just missed it.

[Zalli]

Yeah it reads on the item if they can do reach (2 squares), or long reach (3 squares) attacks

[mentos046]

As Zalli said, the item description in the inventory will tell you if something can do reach attacks. If you just "e"xamine the item on the ground, the screen may not have enough space to tell you if it can do reach attacks, but if you highlight the item in the inventory and press “Enter”, you’ll get a more detailed report on it, along with a list of actions you can take, some of which may not apply to the item. If it can perform a reach attack, then just wield it and use the “f” key, just like firing a gun, to attempt the attack.

“2 squares away” means a character at square zero, then one empty square, then the zed, and “3 squares away” means two empty squares between a character and the zed.

[TheZoneWizard]

Personally I’d like to be able to have a horse and a dog as a companion. Find 1. Tame 1. Take care of them via feeding and medical.

Cows for a farm. Tame and let them eat grass on their own and provide food for them when it is frosty outside. Milk them when you makem shag a bull and have random calves XD

Animal breeding and riding would be great. Hows that for positive

Oh and NPCs should have skills they can use. Like medical backgrounds can hold medical items and ask you or be talked with to heal you.

People with weapons to guard areas. Last time I looked, NPCs were broken and not defending their selves at all and would just be eaten when stood on guard. At least latest exy has the wild ones fighting and pulping.

[psyxypher]

Apparently NPCs with mutations were added to the game (if I’m reading the changelog right). Has anyone seen anything like this yet? Also, NPC Evolution: How do people feel about this concept?

[Dante]

NPC evolution wouldn’t be much harder than zombies, right? If I understand correctly, zombies change by a time scale which affects what generates out of which branch, so couldn’t the NPCs also follow a similar branch system? Some well armed, others low on supplies, etc, all relying on preset spawn tables for each branch.

[Pakislav]

I wouldn’t mind NPC ‘advancement’. Natural selection puts heavy pressure on everything in the world of CDDA so it makes sense that the longer the game progressed, the more badass people should be around with gear, skills, bionics and mutations. I think they should keep up with the player.

[kevin.granade]

I have no issues with having npc advancement over time, clearly survivors are generally going to either survive and get stronger or die.
I’m not clear on how that’s supposed to make interaction with NPCs significantly better.

[psyxypher]

In my mind, the idea is to make it so NPCs aren’t as stagnant without player intervention. Since the zombie threat grows worse and worse with every passing season, the remaining humans need to better prep themselves to fight them and survive. Having properly armed NPCs makes it feel like the game world is more alive. Just my opinion.

It’s honestly just weird seeing NPCs over three 90 days seasons in without any weapons whatsoever, but also simultaneously having 9 in Rifles and 13 in Bartering.

[EpsilonShadow]

I’m not sure if it was mentioned or not but I think NPC bases could be interesting addition. Going into town and it’s strangely empty. You walk around. No loot. Several piles of burned bodies. And somewhere in town you find a fortress of a house with paranoid survivor and his family. That’d be cool.

And vehicles. NPCs on their own deathmobiles. Road battles a la Mad Max.

[proxiehunter]

It would make NPC companions acquired mid to late game after the advancement kicked in more useful. Similarly NPC’s at that stage would have better things to trade with the PC.

[tarburst98]

could also have general NPC opinions change over time. at first npcs would gain extra fear from mutations and bionics, but over time they start seeing them with respect, as signs of power, because the most important thing to them becomes the ability to survive. and a mutant cyborg has that ability.

also would be nice if you could knock some hostile NPCs out and when they come to they are neutral but with a big fear spike because you just proved you totally could kick their ass. would make Aikido a LOT more compelling have since raising their pain high enough could be a knockout method.