# The Crowbar
**URL:** https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-crowbar/1571
**Category:** The Drawing Board
**Created:** [June 2, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-crowbar/1571 "2013-06-02T20:32:49Z")
**Posts on this page:** 8
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Sheb](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Sheb)
#### Post date: [June 3, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-crowbar/1571/21 "2013-06-03T13:27:23Z")
Hundreds of dollars for a crowbar? do you gold-plate your tools?
---
### Author:  [@halberdsturgeon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/halberdsturgeon)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2013, 12:50am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-crowbar/1571/22 "2013-06-04T00:50:57Z")
The prybar I have in my garage set me back all of ten bucks and I’ve had to use it to jimmy my own back door open a couple of times. I’ve also used a flat head screwdriver. I have rather unimpressive noodle arms. Prying things open is not rocket science and does not require a hundred dollar tool to do. Of all the items in the game, the crowbar would be one of most trivial to reproduce in terms of functionality. How about mininukes? Teleporters? Personally I don’t care how unrealistic it is for the player to be able to manufacture complex devices like this - it simplifies things, and makes the crafting system an attractive option rather than a crappy alternative to looting.
---
### Author:  [@TheRealTenman](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheRealTenman)
#### Post date: [June 4, 2013, 9:32am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-crowbar/1571/23 "2013-06-04T09:32:04Z")
> [@Sheb](#):
>
> Hundreds of dollars for a crowbar? do you gold-plate your tools?
See: High name brands, OTT quality control, high quality materials.
I use mine to pry metal… You need your bar stronger than the item to pry it. Thus I need Titty sticks for work.
Halberdsturgeon can use a screwdriver to pry his back door.
I used a high quality screw driver to pry open a door at work (it wasn’t even locked, it was only jammed) and it snapped off causing my boss to throw said broken screwdriver at a wall which rebounded at hit me…
I need to pay for that sweet sweet quality otherwise it hurts.
---
### Author:  [@Flare](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Flare)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2013, 2:46am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-crowbar/1571/24 "2013-06-05T02:46:51Z")
> [@halberdsturgeon](#):
>
> The game shouldn’t be expected to provide a perfect analog to real world manufacturing in its crafting system, otherwise it would become so bogged down with component parts as to be somewhat ridiculous.
The trick is to remake real world manufacturing in the game, while keeping it from bogging down with tedium.
Reality and gameplay are not mutually exclusive, but increasing one with the other is proportional to how much effort and thought needs to be put in to make it work.
---
### Author:  [@halberdsturgeon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/halberdsturgeon)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2013, 3:01am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-crowbar/1571/25 "2013-06-05T03:01:37Z")
Gameplay is always more crucial than realism whenever the two become incompatible, which in my experience is quite frequently. And it’s generally better to give players the ability to do a lot with a little than a little with a lot.
I’ve seen many games turned to unplayable garbage because people kept fixing things that weren’t broken for the sake of making them more realistic.
---
### Author:  [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2013, 3:09am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-crowbar/1571/26 "2013-06-05T03:09:28Z")
> [@TheRealTenman](#):
>
> [quote=“Sheb, post:21, topic:1571”]Hundreds of dollars for a crowbar? do you gold-plate your tools?
See: High name brands, OTT quality control, high quality materials.
I use mine to pry metal… You need your bar stronger than the item to pry it. Thus I need Titty sticks for work.
Halberdsturgeon can use a screwdriver to pry his back door.
I used a high quality screw driver to pry open a door at work (it wasn’t even locked, it was only jammed) and it snapped off causing my boss to throw said broken screwdriver at a wall which rebounded at hit me…
I need to pay for that sweet sweet quality otherwise it hurts.[/quote]
Uh, where I come from that’s potentially a civil assault claim, and your boss would get a stiff dose of anger-control at minimum.
Here: a [$108 crowbar](http://gizmodo.com/5898895/do-crowbars-really-need-hinges). Comes with rubberized grip and some sort of gear-pivot thing that lets you adjust the hook end to your specific needs.
Or, in other words, a bendy crowbar.
---
### Author:  [@Pthalocy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Pthalocy)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2013, 3:13am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-crowbar/1571/27 "2013-06-05T03:13:20Z")
> I've seen many games turned to unplayable garbage because people kept fixing things that weren't broken for the sake of making them more realistic.
D&D is guilty of this in a couple places. The problem is balance - I mean, to use D&D again as an example, 3.5 to 4ed meant simplifying things to the point where gameplay was so streamlined people were complaining Blizzard or Apple had bought it and taken all the thinking out.
There will always be parties on either side of this argument, but being unhappy with a game that isn’t real enough but works smoothly in a rewarding way, versus someone complaining about a game that’s uber-real and difficult/tedious as hell, well. As long as simplifying some things isn’t removing the sensation of rewarding gameplay, I think we’re doing alright.
Bendy crowbar: Absurdly expensive and to me kind of makes me question when I’d need a crowbar that purportedly-versatile, but really really cool.
---
### Author:  [@TheRealTenman](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheRealTenman)
#### Post date: [June 5, 2013, 8:52am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-crowbar/1571/28 "2013-06-05T08:52:39Z")
> [@KA101](#):
>
> Uh, where I come from that’s potentially a civil assault claim, and your boss would get a stiff dose of anger-control at minimum.
Yeah but I like my job…The bonuses are worth it, you just need fast reflexes. He is one of those old school Tradies. As in before laws prevented assault on workers. He frequently tells me stories of if he ever sat down, his boss would kick the chair from below him…I think that is a damn sight worse than him pegging a tool at a wall or floor and catching a rebound.
> [@Your Link](#):
>
> And what happens if that screw gear fails or strips?
Exactly.
NOT HIGH QUALITY
[Previous page](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-crowbar/1571.md?page=1)