# The complexity of this game has surpassed non-optional permadeath

**URL:** https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-complexity-of-this-game-has-surpassed-non-optional-permadeath/5464
**Category:** The Drawing Board
**Created:** [March 16, 2014, 8:26am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-complexity-of-this-game-has-surpassed-non-optional-permadeath/5464 "2014-03-16T08:26:25Z")
**Posts on this page:** 1
**Showing post:** 155

<div class="post-metadata">

### Author: ![halberdsturgeon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/7ab992/32.png) [@halberdsturgeon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/halberdsturgeon)
#### Post date: [March 21, 2014, 3:14am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-complexity-of-this-game-has-surpassed-non-optional-permadeath/5464/155 "2014-03-21T03:14:05Z")

</div>

> [@Hyena Grin](#):
>
> Not everyone likes to gamble. Doesn’t mean people shouldn’t be allowed to play a game of poker without throwing in a fiver. A dyed-in-the-wool poker player would probably think they weren’t getting the real poker experience without the risk. But if the ‘real poker experience’ is unpleasant for someone, why would they want it?

You couldn’t have made my point better if you’d tried. Have you ever played poker without any sort of a wager? It completely undermines the game’s mechanics. Raising, bluffing and calling become zero risk activities and they cease to be meaningful parts of the game.

> [@Hyena Grin](#):
>
> All I can say in response to that, is ‘What if you simply didn’t have the time to play 17 characters to get to that point?’

What is this timer you’re referring to? The game isn’t going to delete itself off your hard disk just because you can only play it for half an hour a day and it might take you a couple of weeks to explore a given part of it. Or are you saying that the game should cater better to people who require rapid gratification or else they quit whatever they’re doing? Because that’s not a very sympathetic argument.

> [@CIB](#):
>
> I think this mostly boils down to: Do I play the game to give myself, as a player, a challenge? Or do I just want to immerse myself in the gameworld and create an interesting story, aka roleplay? Personally I fall into the latter category, so that’s why I don’t really benefit much from enforced permadeath.

Why are these two things mutually exclusive? Do you find it impossible to roleplay in any situation where you know your character will die? Because I find a character’s death is often the most interesting part of their story.

Anyway, this thread is absurdly long. I couldn’t care less if a “DIE? Y/N” option was added via the debug menu a la wizard mode, but optional death should never be part of the game proper.

---

_[View the full topic](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/the-complexity-of-this-game-has-surpassed-non-optional-permadeath/5464)._