The Art & Science of Chemical Warfare for Survivors: Chlorine Gas, Phosgene, & Sulfur Mustard

nameless_survivor · 2018-12-12T20:14:34.783Z

Would a biologist’s expert opinion be sufficient? I know a guy I could ask.

We could also test some gas on actual ants if you have no moral objections. Chlorine gas is REALLY easy to make.

Also, a giant ant would be even more vulnerable to respiratory damage than a small one, due to the drastic surface area increases that comes with an overall increase in size, and would be required to make giant ants even be able to breath.

You can’t actually scale them up as is and have them live, they would suffocate due to the square cube law. Insufficient respiratory system surface area.

en.wikipedia.org

Square–cube law

The square–cube law (or cube–square law) is a mathematical principle, applied in a variety of scientific fields, which describes the relationship between the volume and the surface area as a shape's size increases or decreases. It was first described in 1638 by Galileo Galilei in his Two New Sciences as the "...ratio of two volumes is greater than the ratio of their surfaces". This principle states that, as a shape grows in size, its volume grows faster than its surface area. When applied to the...

nameless_survivor · 2018-12-12T20:25:55.389Z

Even if traditional chemical weapons won’t work on bugs, I’m sure there is plenty of insecticide lying around you could vaporize and disperse.

Edit: mustard gas can penetrate plant tissue, and by its nature should be very harmful once inside:
“Physical and Chemical Properties
The mustards are able to penetrate most
tissues they come into contact with and a
great number of materials: woods, leather,
rubber, plants, etc.”
https://jramc.bmj.com/content/jramc/148/4/358.full.pdf

So mustard gas could kill Triffids, and ants too because it would be able to penetrate their exoskeleton. Chitin is very similar to cellulose. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chitin

kevin.granade · 2018-12-12T22:17:21.633Z

nameless_survivor:

Would a biologist’s expert opinion be sufficient? I know a guy I could ask.

Translation:
“Would hearsay be sufficient? I can attribute whatever credentials you like to my as-far-as-you-know fictitious source.”
In case it’s not obvious, no.

nameless_survivor:

Even if traditional chemical weapons won’t work on bugs, I’m sure there is plenty of insecticide lying around you could vaporize and disperse.

This is my point, there are TONS of herbicides and insecticides and fungicides you can use, there’s no reason to attribute lethality willy nilly, and in fact it makes for nicer in-game properties if a lof of the poisons have different effects on different species.

nameless_survivor · 2018-12-12T22:29:08.261Z

kevin.granade:

Translation:
“Would hearsay be sufficient? I can attribute whatever credentials you like to my as-far-as-you-know fictitious source.”
In case it’s not obvious, no.

No, I was going to ask Dr. Merchant at McNeese State University. I took his biochemistry class. He mostly specializes in crocodiles, but he might know someone who WOULD know.
https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Mark_Merchant

But I’ll take that as a no anyway.

kevin.granade · 2018-12-12T22:32:30.096Z

If he points you at sources that tell you things about it, you can point me at those sources.
If you have a conversation with someone and they make statements about it, it’s hearsay.

Think about it, how do you expect me to differentiate between someone actually consulting an expert and just making things up? You’re just words on a computer as far as I’m concerned

nameless_survivor · 2018-12-12T22:33:45.280Z

kevin.granade:

Think about it, how do you expect me to differentiate between someone actually consulting an expert and just making things up? You’re just words on a computer as far as I’m concerned

No, no, no, of course not. I wasn’t thinking that. I’d get them to email you with their professional email and the response to our query.

Actually, come to think of it, I do some contracting work out at a few chemical plants that produce insecticides and herbicides. I MIGHT be able to find a chemical engineer or biochemist out there that might have an answer as well. I mostly deal with the maintenance engineers though, so I’ll have to see who out there might know, and be willing to talk to me. Thats slightly more of a longshot though.

nameless_survivor · 2018-12-12T23:00:47.841Z

kevin.granade:

This is my point, there are TONS of herbicides and insecticides and fungicides you can use, there’s no reason to attribute lethality willy nilly, and in fact it makes for nicer in-game properties if a lof of the poisons have different effects on different species.

If it won’t kill ants, spiders, etc, outright, it would at least blind them. Eyeballs and compund eyes are squishy and vulnerable.

Maybe creatures with exotic alien biology or biochemistry, like the Mi-go or shoggoths could get stoned on mustard gas or something. You hit them with it and they get all passive and loopy. Mi-go would probably start saying silly shit. It would make for a cool way to capture one as a mission for example.

Ricky_Van · 2018-12-12T23:04:31.759Z

i would take some recommendation for this lethal gas… it would be useful for me to fish out some hiding bandits inside cabin/house tho.

nameless_survivor · 2018-12-12T23:06:33.097Z

Bah, just run in there with some combat armor and shoot them. I cleared a whole bandit tower with RM-13 armor and heavy arc projector (think its the near future weapons mod).

Ricky_Van · 2018-12-12T23:10:23.570Z

but this gas feature is kinda giving a realistic tactical breach feeling to the game. like gas em out of hiding and mow them down.

nameless_survivor · 2018-12-12T23:37:00.514Z

You already have tear gas for that. I mean, I’d use chemical weapons on bandits if I was feeling lazy, or if there were a shitload of them, but otherwise I’d just shoot them.

Ricky_Van · 2018-12-12T23:38:49.018Z

oohh okay… this just reminds me…

how many gas-based danger in the game?

nameless_survivor · 2018-12-12T23:42:01.330Z

If you see anything gaseous, its bad for you. And don’t go near fungus without a gas mask either.

Ricky_Van · 2018-12-12T23:43:47.598Z

oohh… that’s good. i forget the gas on fungus and some place with leaking gas.

Sanehatter · 2018-12-13T22:57:39.651Z

Even if high concentrations are needed, smoking the ants inside a nest (thus killing the queen) is still pretty possible.

TheZoneWizard · 2018-12-14T13:49:51.634Z

If we had NPCs that could make use of a rifle. I would be pretty leary about rushing into a room with them.

I would prefer to gas people out of the building. That or if we had smart NPCs, I would also light the building on fire and make them run outside to inspect and/or flee from a burning building for a stealth approach tactic.

Darkfirephoenix · 2018-12-14T14:48:21.280Z

How to easily take out anything that is vunerable to CO (Carbon-monoxide), dump a load of coal in a closed room (like sealing off any entrances/exits to a ant-nest) and then dump water on it. Wait a while, ???, PROFIT.

Sanehatter · 2018-12-15T17:30:03.015Z

The ant nests in game seem to have fairly large entrances tho. It would take a considerable construction project to seal it.

redxlaser15 · 2018-12-15T18:42:50.789Z

Pfft, all you need is a giant cork and problem solved! Do you not watch TV or something?

Darkfirephoenix · 2018-12-15T18:49:18.401Z

Or a big (giant) steel plate (or a vehicle) to park over the anthill and cover the exit