Suggestion about fires

[system]

Make charcoal in a sealed metal container from wood.

[Zireael]

Make charcoal in a sealed metal container from wood.

Great idea.

[Hyena_Grin]

If you can fry an egg on a car hood that’s been out in the sun, I’m pretty sure you can cook stuff on glowing hot embers.

Flames are just a biproduct of fuel molecules being ejected into the air and decomposing, which in turn gives off light. (to put it simply) Just because something is not giving off flames doesn’t mean it’s not hot. Magma doesn’t give off flames. It is still molten rock, however.

I don’t know how many things I have cooked over red hot coals just like the ones in that picture. I don’t know how many times I have tucked a piece of wood into coals like that and watched it immediately burst into flames. So I don’t know why you think it can’t cook stuff. =P

Anyway, I like the idea. Fuel added to hot coals should have a chance to ignite automatically (perhaps some kind of flammability stat for object? I dunno) and thus you could keep a ‘campfire’ going without the need for additional matches. Just like you can in real life. Hot coals should turn to cool coals just for effect, which can disappear over time like blood stains.

Also like the idea of making charcoal. You should also be able to build a charcoal pit by digging a pit, and then building a charcoal pit from the menu (survival?) using chopped wood and a shovel and an ignition item. Then you wait 24 hours and bam, stacks of charcoal. Which make for good fuel sources and might be required in other recipes.

[DerpyBilbo]

But you coul still place another 2x4 on it to start up the fire again

That was kinda my idea but i didnt know how to say it. lol

[drake1storm]

A little charcoal, some sand, and a rag make for a very effective water filter as well. It wouldn’t sterilize it by any means, but it can make even stagnant water/sewage considerably safer in real life.

It would be a very easy recipe to add to the game if they add this. It wouldn’t sterilize water, but it could be a power free way to reduce the risk of illness from all water sources with only a basic survival skill.

[Zireael]

[quote=“drake1storm, post:18, topic:2542”]A little charcoal, some sand, and a rag make for a very effective water filter as well. It wouldn’t sterilize it by any means, but it can make even stagnant water/sewage considerably safer in real life.

It would be a very easy recipe to add to the game if they add this. It wouldn’t sterilize water, but it could be a power free way to reduce the risk of illness from all water sources with only a basic survival skill.[/quote]

I like the idea.

[Otaku]

Yeah, not sure if I find that charcoal is used enough to make it an item. I mean, why add another material just to make a fire? Why use firewood in order to create firecoal? As for the filter part, not really. This game only tracks clean or not clean. It does not track sterilization, solutes or other contaminants.

Hot coals, yeah, I guess it might sorta kinda maybe possibly eventually … cooks something. But the game does not give individual tracking times for different fires does it? So cooking a slab of meat is not the same on a raging fire as it is on coals right? I dont know, I guess that the final decision is up to the devs if they want to do it or not.

[Ziusudra]

[quote=“Otaku, post:20, topic:2542”]This game only tracks clean or not clean.[/quote]Was that changed? Wiki says otherwise.

[Otaku]

[quote=“Otaku, post:20, topic:2542”]This game only tracks clean or not clean.[/quote]Was that changed? Wiki says otherwise.

Thats what I am saying. It only says it is either clean, or it is poisoned with level x poison. It does not track things like bacteria nor solutes.

[Sheb]

Charcoal filter could reduce the poison level to level 1.

[Hyena_Grin]

Again, fire is not the source of the heat. Anyone who has ever used a Bunsen burner knows that you want as little flame as possible to achieve the highest possible heat. Coals are hot. They are incredibly hot, and they generate the heat which allows fuel to be consumed and generate fire.

People have misconceptions about fire and coals and tend to think that coals are the result of a ‘cold fire’ but this is not the case. Fire is the result of gasses. Not heat. You can reach enormous temperatures without generating flame - basically until the point where air itself will combust, which is an extremely high temperature.

Obviously as there is no fuel coals will gradually cool down, but glowing coals without flame are not a sign of decreased heat, they are a sign of a lack of fuel to ignite. However they remain hot for quite some time and will rapidly generate fire as soon as fuel is reintroduced to the system. Which creates more coals, just as hot, and just as hungry for more fuel. Flameless glowing coals will cook things just as quickly as a fire ignited on the same coals. They are, in effect, the source of that heat. That is just how fire works.

Anyway, charcoal has plenty of uses. You can use it for rudimentary water and air filters. You can use it to create lye for the production of soaps. You can consume it to treat upset stomachs. And of course you can burn it very efficiently. Already, in that short list it has more uses than some of the crafting materials in the game.

Re: campfires, it is not so much the cooking that interests me. Charcoal is very efficient at retaining high levels of heat without generating flame (see above). Charcoal fires can be used to create heat levels required for things like the smelting of metals. Wood fires cannot reach these temperatures. So you could, in theory, create a system where metal crafting recipes in the game require charcoal fueled fires. Also, campfires made with charcoal would last longer and their ‘Hot Coal’ post-fire status would last quite a bit longer, making for better, longer lasting heat sources, with less smoke, and easier to reignite post-fuel consumption.

I dunno, I like it.

[drake1storm]

[quote=“Ziusudra, post:21, topic:2542”][quote=“Otaku, post:20, topic:2542”]This game only tracks clean or not clean.[/quote]Was that changed? Wiki says otherwise.

Thats what I am saying. It only says it is either clean, or it is poisoned with level x poison. It does not track things like bacteria nor solutes.[/quote]

Actually, it tracks the poisoned as a number. The filter could simply reduce the poison of that unit of water by x percent, preferably using a parabolic equation for the math or raising a “filtered” flag so that you cannot filter the water into purity.

[Otaku]

Actually, it tracks the poisoned as a number. The filter could simply reduce the poison of that unit of water by x percent, preferably using a parabolic equation for the math or raising a “filtered” flag so that you cannot filter the water into purity.

Would an exponencial equation not be better?

Snip

Fine, you win. But you are not getting my help with this.
Yeah, I guess that charcoal is used for a lot of things, but we dont have soaps (yet, lots of talk about it though). I guess that for the air filter just copy something like a gas mask and change a few of the ingredients. Eating charcoal… I guess we could just copy vitimins and give a moral hit (I dont think that it would taste that good right?).

Also, I dont think that anybody is going to start any metal crafting in a post apocalyptic world. Right?

About the flame/heat/coals thing. Dont know where you got your information, and I feel it is too much trouble to learn. I will take your word for it. Too much trouble.

I hate it when you are right. grumble grumble

[Rivet]

We already have metal crafting aside from vehicle stuff. Check out the makeshift machete for an example.

I would love to have the option to smith my own metal weapons, given the proper equipment and time.

[Otaku]

[quote=“Rivet, post:27, topic:2542”]We already have metal crafting aside from vehicle stuff. Check out the makeshift machete for an example.

I would love to have the option to smith my own metal weapons, given the proper equipment and time.[/quote]
Are you about 3 feet tall and have a beard? And like dirt? And hate the sun? Then thats why.

Yeah, most of the ‘metalcrafting’ that we currently have is more metal shaping than actually making things from raw ingots.
But I am not really supporting it, I mean, are we dwarves now? NEVER. We are hardened survivors, knowing that archery is the best bet. We cant have somebody thinking that we are dwarves and that we are still living underground like those barbaric people can we? (This should be said aloud in a proud/Braveheart sorta voice).

[Rivet]

I like to have as many options as possible. That being said, metalcrafting adds a lot more options.

If I can’t find a sword and I want a sword, I want the option to be able to make one for myself.

[drake1storm]

Woo, I’m starting college next week with calculus 3 and I’m forgetting basic vocab. This is gonna be fun.

[Hyena_Grin]

[quote=“Otaku, post:26, topic:2542”]Fine, you win. But you are not getting my help with this.
Yeah, I guess that charcoal is used for a lot of things, but we dont have soaps (yet, lots of talk about it though). I guess that for the air filter just copy something like a gas mask and change a few of the ingredients. Eating charcoal… I guess we could just copy vitimins and give a moral hit (I dont think that it would taste that good right?).

Also, I dont think that anybody is going to start any metal crafting in a post apocalyptic world. Right?

About the flame/heat/coals thing. Dont know where you got your information, and I feel it is too much trouble to learn. I will take your word for it. Too much trouble.

I hate it when you are right. grumble grumble :)[/quote]

Haha, just an education in the sciences and access to teh intarwebz

Here’s a little snippet from the wiki on charcoal:

Charcoal burns at intense temperatures, up to 2700 degrees Celsius. By comparison the melting point of iron is approximately 1200 to 1550 degrees Celsius. Due to its porosity it is sensitive to the flow of air and the heat generated can be moderated by controlling the air flow to the fire. For this reason charcoal is an ideal fuel for a forge and is still widely used by blacksmiths.

Basically if you want to melt down and reshape iron and steel, you want charcoal.

In the absence of huge machines to cold-shape steel, simply hammering on a chunk of steel isn’t going to fashion you a very good blade or whatever else you might be making. Anything produced in this fashion would likely be weak and brittle compared to forged items. At the very least you would want to heat the metal you are shaping to a point where it is more malleable, so that the shaping process does not create cracks and fissures in the metal. Which still implies charcoal.

I think there’s room for both. There’s tons of crafting options and construction options - I don’t think basic metal crafting is ‘Dwarfish,’ it’s a pretty useful skill to have when you need arrowheads, metal weapons, gun parts, and metal tools. I would absolutely love to see the crowbar recipe replaced with something that actually makes sense, for example. Personally I enjoy the progression from rigging together a makeshift tool/weapon that is weak and brittle, to eventually being able to craft higher quality items that last.

A simple coal fire pit would probably burn hot enough to shape metal objects. And it’s a relatively simple addition to the crafting requirements.

More advanced metal crafting might require a makeshift or pre-existing forge in order to get metals hot enough to melt down and reshape, and higher skill levels. It might require more materials and setup, like molds for items which need to be crafted from other materials entirely.

Call it what you will - I am a huge sucker for crafting trees and crafting progression. It keeps things from feeling stagnant. I’ve survived the apocalypse for six months and I’m still duct-taping bent metal shelves to broom handles. I don’t want to just ‘get by’ in the apocalypse, I want to thrive.

[KA101]

I want to [i]thrive[/i].

And that is the long-term plan in Day of the Triffids. After 90%+ of the human population gets blinded and the Triffids get loose, yeah, civilization falls. But once the characters start getting things stabilized, their focus is on rebuilding their agriculture & tool-making capabilities.

Support the metalcrafting idea, and (unless Rivet minds) would comment that her callsign implies a certain comfort zone with metalwork or at least metal-fasteners.

[Zireael]

I like the metalcrafting use of coal, too!