# Stop adding content and do story damnit

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [May 11, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098 "2014-05-11T04:21:46Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/cataclysmdda/original/1X/21b5d044e8473b25d0bf905d60477e25f6fbe0cf.png) [@system](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/1 "2014-05-11T04:21:46Z")

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I’m getting increasingly tired of the lack of story elements for items. It’s not reasonable that my character can hold plutonium in his backpack. Nor is it reasonable that RivTech items are so fucking commonplace and none of them have any unified Ammos.

What about the leech pods? Needs more backstory  
What about skeletons? Needs more backstory  
What about temples? Needs more backstory  
Artifacts? Backstory  
FEMA camps? Backstory.

Basically we need more backstory and less content.

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**Author:** ![Slax](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/slax/32/5385_2.png) [@Slax](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Slax)\
**Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 5:08am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/2 "2014-05-11T05:08:50Z")

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Not all mysteries have written clues. You gotta make some guesses. 😛

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**Author:** ![infectedmochi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/infectedmochi/32/206_2.png) [@infectedmochi](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/infectedmochi)\
**Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 5:23am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/3 "2014-05-11T05:23:54Z")

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Uhmm 'kay. As long as someone can write the lore, I’m sure it will get added swiftly. How about you think of something and post it here, and everyone else can contribute to it.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 6:09am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/4 "2014-05-11T06:09:00Z")

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I have a counter-proposal, give me all your money. :3

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**Author:** ![kilozombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e274bd/32.png) [@kilozombie](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kilozombie)\
**Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 6:38am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/5 "2014-05-11T06:38:41Z")

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This happens to be an incredibly counter-productive post.

> [@infectedmochi](#):
>
> Uhmm 'kay. As long as someone can write the lore, I’m sure it will get added swiftly. How about you think of something and post it here, and everyone else can contribute to it.

is very, very correct.

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**Author:** ![Blackopsman9999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8797f3/32.png) [@Blackopsman9999](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Blackopsman9999)\
**Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 8:15am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/6 "2014-05-11T08:15:23Z")

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My problem is there is TOO much focus on lore, and not enough on gameplay. Where the fuck do you get the idea there is not enough lore?

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**Author:** ![Dec](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/dec/32/218_2.png) [@Dec](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Dec)\
**Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 8:16am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/7 "2014-05-11T08:16:49Z")

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Well, they don’t really say much about Rivtech, or the science labs, or why there are fortified, turret guarded bases within a tenth of a mile of your local Walmart.

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**Author:** ![Rivet](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/rivet/32/11_2.png) [@Rivet](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Rivet)\
**Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 8:38am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/8 "2014-05-11T08:38:28Z")

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> [@gtaguy](#):
>
> It’s not reasonable that my character can hold plutonium in his backpack.

It’s not like you’re carrying around chunks of elemental plutonium. They’re nuclear batteries. Read the description on the item.

> [@gtaguy](#):
>
> Nor is it reasonable that RivTech items are so fucking commonplace and none of them have any unified Ammos.

They’re actually very uncommon - as firearms go in C:DDA - and the vast majority of Rivtech guns use one of two calibers of caseless ammunition. Their ammunition is about as unified as it gets.

> [@gtaguy](#):
>
> What about the leech pods? Needs more backstory

They’re a new thing and they’re still a work in progress. But if we have triffids, why not evil electric-plants?

> [@gtaguy](#):
>
> What about skeletons? Needs more backstory

They’re really skinny zombies. Read the description.

> [@gtaguy](#):
>
> What about temples? Needs more backstory

Old stuff that predates the DDA project. They’ll likely get a makeover at some point.

> [@gtaguy](#):
>
> Artifacts? Backstory

Read more lab notes.

> [@gtaguy](#):
>
> FEMA camps? Backstory.

You’re wandering around after the downfall of civilization, the near-annihilation of the human race, and the end of the world as we know it. Of course there will be abandoned (by the living) FEMA relief camps scattered around. What part of their existence requires explanation?

Even though the questions were posed in a snarky manner, I’ve given you the best answers I have.

> [@Forrest](#):
>
> Well, they don’t really say much about Rivtech, or the science labs, or why there are fortified, turret guarded bases within a tenth of a mile of your local Walmart.

Remember that shortly before the cataclysm, there were increased military tensions with China. Heavy military presence and top-secret superscience were the name of the game in the days leading up to the end of the world.

As far as Rivtech goes, it’s a company that made !!fun!! stuff that helps to remind us that the world of Cataclysm: DDA is not quite the same as the one we live in. As it currently stands, it’s the same sort of vague behind-the-scenes existence that Twenty8, Doubletech, or any given one of the real-world firearms manufacturers that are mentioned in passing throughout the game has.

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**Author:** ![Dec](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/dec/32/218_2.png) [@Dec](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Dec)\
**Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 8:41am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/9 "2014-05-11T08:41:53Z")

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Hmm. Fair enough.

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**Author:** ![Zaweri\_Runewright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/5e9695/32.png) [@Zaweri\_Runewright](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zaweri_Runewright)\
**Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 8:44am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/10 "2014-05-11T08:44:39Z")

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Rivet just nuked this thread with truth.  
THERE IS TOO MUCH CONCENTRATION ON LORE.  
Gameplay before lore, IMHO.

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**Author:** ![Blackopsman9999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8797f3/32.png) [@Blackopsman9999](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Blackopsman9999)\
**Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 9:49am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/11 "2014-05-11T09:49:55Z")

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> [@Zaweri Runewright](#):
>
> Gameplay before lore, IMHO.

+1

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**Author:** ![GlyphGryph](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/glyphgryph/32/847_2.png) [@GlyphGryph](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GlyphGryph)\
**Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 11:11am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/12 "2014-05-11T11:11:31Z")

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There does need to be to read and dsicover. I am working on (and will hopefully finish) modifications to make doing so in the labs more rewarding.

The argument of “gameplay over lore” is asinine, though. Adding more in-game stories to encounter _is_ improving gameplay, for everyone that plays for the joy of exploration and discovery, although it certainly doesnt need to be explicit backstory or world lore.

Take Bioshock - the recordings you could collect were not just fluff - they were gameplay. They provided incentives to search, they established mood, they altered player behaviour by their exitence. That is something we need more of.

But we need better systems to convey those first, because right now we can’t easily do stories that are interesting and promote good gameplay. The newish snippets system is a great example of progress on this front.

None of this means that the stuff described in that first post should be among the elements included though. In fact I would argue almost nothing from there is really worth sticking in except tangentially or indirectly. The player should have to work for explanations, and certainty should be elusive.

Saying gameplay is more important than lore is as silly as saying lore is more important than content. In both cases the second is simply a method for delivering the first.

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**Author:** ![Khrysanth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbce88/32.png) [@Khrysanth](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Khrysanth)\
**Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 2:04pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/13 "2014-05-11T14:04:29Z")

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While I agree that I would like to see more lore delivered in-game, both actual information (military, scientist, politician, etc.) and also the sensational part-true word on the street versions (newspapers, politicians, survivor notes), I don’t agree that we really need “backstory” on the companies involved.

Let’s face it, here in the real US, you can find countless brands of everything - guns, cereal, cars, computers, etc. They don’t come with history books for their manufacturer. We take these brands for granted. Who here can, without looking it up, tell me anything about Chevrolet, Boeing, Sony, Black & Decker, Colt Manufacturing, or General Mills other than “what they make”?

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**Author:** ![StopSignal](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stopsignal/32/1923_2.png) [@StopSignal](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/StopSignal)\
**Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 8:13pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/14 "2014-05-11T20:13:11Z")

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[quote=“Zaweri Runewright, post:10, topic:6098”]Rivet just nuked this thread with truth.  
THERE IS TOO MUCH CONCENTRATION ON LORE.  
Gameplay before lore, IMHO.[/quote]

I am the kind of person that thinks we should have a general concept of lore, then make the game, make it fun, and then build the lore around it, and make the lore slowly penetrate gameplay until it’s basically both things toghether. But gameplay first.

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**Author:** ![i2amroy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/i2amroy/32/909_2.png) [@i2amroy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/i2amroy)\
**Post date:** [May 11, 2014, 11:24pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/15 "2014-05-11T23:24:07Z")

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> [@StopSignal](#):
>
> I am the kind of person that thinks we should have a general concept of lore, then make the game, make it fun, and then build the lore around it, and make the lore slowly penetrate gameplay until it’s basically both things toghether. But gameplay first.

Generally the way I look at it is simultaneousness. In order to go into the game something needs at least a semi-valid bit of lore behind it. For companies like Rivtech this can be as simple as a new company the made lots of money with causeless firearms. For things like new bionics there should be at least a valid-sounding piece of information about how they work. (The condenser bionic, for example, draws water out of the air). After that point things can be changed either by someone coming up with a great story idea and then fabricating a bit of explanation behind it, or coming up with some cool lore and then fabricating content for it. The difference, however, mainly lies in how easily it is changed. Things already in-game can only be changed with great difficulty, thus content pretty much always requires at least that little lore snippet behind it. Lore, however can be changed with much more ease until content based on it is actually added into the game. That, IMO means that you can add lore without content, but until it actually gets some content it is still mutable and may be changed in favor of other lore.

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**Author:** ![Blackopsman9999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8797f3/32.png) [@Blackopsman9999](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Blackopsman9999)\
**Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 6:43am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/16 "2014-05-12T06:43:02Z")

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NS2 has no lore to it almost.  
Factorio, has very little as well.

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**Author:** ![Shadowchaser](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Shadowchaser](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Shadowchaser)\
**Post date:** [May 12, 2014, 11:53pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/17 "2014-05-12T23:53:55Z")

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[quote=“Blackopsman9999, post:16, topic:6098”]NS2 has no lore to it almost.  
Factorio, has very little as well.[/quote]

I play Cataclysm for hours on end.

I play neither of those games.

Lore is a factor in this.

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**Author:** ![Blackopsman9999](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8797f3/32.png) [@Blackopsman9999](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Blackopsman9999)\
**Post date:** [May 13, 2014, 12:33am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/18 "2014-05-13T00:33:31Z")

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Lore is just like an easter egg in a game for me. Not needed, nice to have. I would rather have the game be nice than the four items with ninety pages about each atom of it.

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**Author:** ![dambuk1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e19adc/32.png) [@dambuk1](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/dambuk1)\
**Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 6:12pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/19 "2014-05-14T18:12:29Z")

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I like when there is a lot of lore and backstories in-game. I am the type of person that gets bored building bases and clearing towns of zombies, but can spend HOURS just reading random notes, research logs or some kind of in-game encyclopaedia. To me cataclysm doesn’t have enough lore at the moment, it takes 24 hours for me to get bored on one world, because to me there isn’t much to explore, read, know and solve. Then, i go on an adventure, destroying everything in my path and getting really disappointed when i kill “the thing” in three hits .\_\_\_.  
So, to appeal to all types of players, both the lore AND the gameplay need to be improved - so people like me can spend hours gathering random notes or solving the world’s mysteries, while other people can hop into homemade tanks and go battle godzilla sized netherrealm beasts.

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**Author:** ![Belteshazzar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@Belteshazzar](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Belteshazzar)\
**Post date:** [May 14, 2014, 7:09pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stop-adding-content-and-do-story-damnit/6098/20 "2014-05-14T19:09:24Z")

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loads of the ‘lore’ is currently in the laboratory computers.

The opening could possibly use a mention of the Eastern/Western Bloc tensions, but aside from that the storytelling is probably best in taking the Dark Souls route in which the picture is hazy, fragmented and delivered slowly over the course of one’s explorations.

Hell, I actually oppose requiring in-depth, explicit reasoning and description as to how every creature works, where it came from, what it wants, ect, ect… because at a certain point one is going to need to accept that even the researchers either had no clue because it was just too damn bizzare, nobody has seen it before, or they couldn’t spare the time to write it all down in between panicked running and reloading.

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