# Steam Dark Days Ahead

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Tags:** tileset, todo, spoilers, compilation, experimental\
**Created:** [May 15, 2021, 3:44pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348 "2021-05-15T15:44:37Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![xrogaan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/xrogaan/32/7652_2.png) [@xrogaan](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/xrogaan)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 12:26am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/23 "2021-05-22T00:26:09Z")

</div>

No, it just means that the game will be available through steam. The launcher  
and existing ways to obtain the game will continue to be valid. More over, it is  
unclear to me how third party mods will supported on the steam release. Yet  
again another hurdle :).

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Air](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Air](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Air)\
**Post date:** [May 22, 2021, 11:03pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/24 "2021-05-22T23:03:04Z")

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> [@TheMurderUnicorn](#):
>
> That’s all I wondered, really. I’ve seen other open source games (notably Nethack) have someone come in, make a few changes, and sell it. Whether it’s permitted or not, I would have had an issue with that.
> 
> So you saying that it will be free eases almost all of the concerns I had. I’m interested to see how it all shakes out.

Thank You. You mean NetHack: Legacy?

> [@Bio](#):
>
> so does this mean that we no longer need the launcher?

Yes and no. Steam allows me to create branches. So, there may be an official version of “Steam” prepared by me and an experimental version with the launcher etc., the user can choose what version he will download.

Why don’t you want to use “Game Launcher”?

> [@Positronic](#):
>
> I do have a suggestion, you should try joining the official development server, as it’ll help being able to communicate clearly with you about this beyond email or discourse.

Thanks. I will try to join.

> [@xrogaan](#):
>
> No, it just means that the game will be available through steam. The launcher  
> and existing ways to obtain the game will continue to be valid. More over, it is  
> unclear to me how third party mods will supported on the steam release. Yet  
> again another hurdle :).

We will see, It depends on the license (mods).

It may not be a game launcher, but the Steam suer will be able to download the launcher version. I’d like to make an easy-to-use version, but if someone wants more, no problem. The Steam version is only optional, for those who want automatic updates, better looks, sounds etc. I will keep you informed. For now, I’m on step 1 of 3 (Steamworks):

![image](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/cataclysmdda/original/2X/d/dc487b798e249c8f9205539ef22fe83db813107d.png)

Remember, zombies can appear at any time… If you have any questions, feel free to contact me. Thanks.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![AssumeCroons](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/assumecroons/32/8570_2.png) [@AssumeCroons](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/AssumeCroons)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 10:40am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/25 "2021-05-23T10:40:12Z")

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I don’t do much with licenses, though I have an interest in free software.

**Questions for anybody** :

1. Is CDDA open source?
2. Is it licensed that way?
3. Are derivative works expected to be open source?
4. Why does CDDA include a license whose authors “[recommend against using Creative Commons licenses for software](https://creativecommons.org/faq/#can-i-apply-a-creative-commons-license-to-software)”?

The [license](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/blob/b533bda05dda5094f46a561bf297c271f30e1e52/LICENSE.txt) for CDDA [includes](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/blob/b533bda05dda5094f46a561bf297c271f30e1e52/LICENSE.txt#L1) [Creative Commons 3.0](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/). The CDDA license also [includes](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/blob/b533bda05dda5094f46a561bf297c271f30e1e52/LICENSE.txt#L19):

```
# Redistribution and use in source and binary forms, with or without
# modification, are permitted provided that the following conditions are
# met:

# (1) Redistributions of source code must retain the above copyright
# notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer. 

# (2) Redistributions in binary form must reproduce the above copyright
# notice, this list of conditions and the following disclaimer in
# the documentation and/or other materials provided with the
# distribution.
```

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Fris0uman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/fris0uman/32/8607_2.png) [@Fris0uman](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Fris0uman)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 11:01am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/26 "2021-05-23T11:01:05Z")

</div>

See [CC BY-SA is NOT suitable for codes · Issue #18095 · CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA · GitHub](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/18095) for the licence question  
CC-BY-SA is inherited from OG cataclysm and changing it is not trivial

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![AssumeCroons](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/assumecroons/32/8570_2.png) [@AssumeCroons](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/AssumeCroons)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 11:06am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/27 "2021-05-23T11:06:26Z")

</div>

I’m a CDDA player, and wannabe contributor. The idea of the Steam version gives me mixed feelings. On the good side, it’s a good game and hopefully more people can play it. On the down side, Valve could be a bad influence. Not the players, mind you - though that community is broader and does include a fair amount of trouble. But Valve does support a variety of ways to sell and distribute games that are not necessarily in sync with open development. So, I’m worried that the change might drive me away, both as a player and as a wannabe contributor.

> [@Air](#):
>
> “I’ve never seen you around” - I’ve killed a lot of zombies…

Your [forum profile here](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Air) is relatively new. Have you [contributed](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/graphs/contributors) source code?

> [@Air](#):
>
> There is a lot of work to do with graphics, music and sounds, but the game will be 100% free… As long as it’s on my account. If current developers eg Kevin or someone else decide to create a Steamworks account partner I will transfer Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead to this account. What will happen then? The license allows you to sell the game. If this were to happen, I recommend: the game should still be free on Steam and have paid DLC (scenarios, soundtrack, tiles, etc.) - as a support for developers.

Are these “additional restrictions”? Would this therefore contradict the CDDA license, specifically the following two parts of CC3.0?

> [@Creative Commons 3.0](#):
>
> [ShareAlike](http://creativecommons.org/ns#ShareAlike) — If you remix, transform, or build upon the material, you must distribute your contributions under the same license as the original.

> [@Creative Commons 3.0](#):
>
> [No additional restrictions](https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/3.0/#deed-conditions-no-icons) — You may not apply legal terms or technological measures that legally restrict others from doing anything the license permits.

Advertising as “free but with paid DLC” can feel quite shady, both for players and contributors. For players, it follows a manipulative pattern: the free portion is a baited hook. For contributors, does everybody who contributes code know that somebody else will make money off of their work (either via direct sale or by being used to incentivize purchase of paid DLC)?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![AssumeCroons](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/assumecroons/32/8570_2.png) [@AssumeCroons](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/AssumeCroons)\
**Post date:** [May 23, 2021, 11:10am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/28 "2021-05-23T11:10:16Z")

</div>

> [@Fris0uman](#):
>
> See [CC BY-SA is NOT suitable for codes · Issue #18095 · CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA · GitHub](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/18095) for the licence question  
> CC-BY-SA is inherited from OG cataclysm and changing it is not trivial

Thanks! That does give a lot of background on the license questions.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TwinCrows](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/twincrows/32/11919_2.png) [@TwinCrows](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TwinCrows)\
**Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 1:33am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/29 "2021-05-24T01:33:27Z")

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I know that Steam offers a lot of data to the owners of such store pages. What are your plans for this data? Do you intend to publish it, sell it, or is that only going to be available to yourself? How can we as a community monitor how you use this data? [https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/marketing/google\_analytics](https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/marketing/google_analytics)

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Zhilkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zhilkin/32/3749_2.png) [@Zhilkin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zhilkin)\
**Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 4:04pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/30 "2021-05-24T16:04:47Z")

</div>

I wonder who would be interested in spending money to know which countries CDDA players are coming from.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Bio](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/bio/32/6690_2.png) [@Bio](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Bio)\
**Post date:** [May 24, 2021, 10:03pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/31 "2021-05-24T22:03:28Z")

</div>

> [@Air](#):
>
> Why don’t you want to use “Game Launcher”?

It’s not that I don’t _want_ to use the launcher, it’s that I _can’t_ use the launcher because its broken since the server host is down. Without the host server I can’t check for updates and download mods and its just a paperweight

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Fris0uman](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/fris0uman/32/8607_2.png) [@Fris0uman](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Fris0uman)\
**Post date:** [May 25, 2021, 7:31am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/32 "2021-05-25T07:31:47Z")

</div>

Launcher got updated somewhat recently and works again, it just doesn’t have the changelog.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [May 26, 2021, 6:53pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/33 "2021-05-26T18:53:51Z")

</div>

I want to point out something about your concerns, which is that the steam release, as currently situated, is a shallow fork of the project. It has nothing whatsoever to do with the primary direction of the development project itself, which is releasing CDDA as a free and open source game on whatever platforms are feasible.

From my point of view, this is just one more release channel in addition to (in order of cannonicality):  
Source code from GitHub.  
Github Releases (Linux, Windows, Mac, Android).  
CDDA Launcher (unofficial, just pulls from GH releases anyway)  
Linux distribution specific builds (Fedorra, Debian, Arch, Gentoo, etc)

While we’re happy to integrate support for these release channels into the main project, _none of them steer the project itself in any way_.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Theawesomeboophis](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/theawesomeboophis/32/11202_2.png) [@Theawesomeboophis](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Theawesomeboophis)\
**Post date:** [June 4, 2021, 4:06pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/34 "2021-06-04T16:06:23Z")

</div>

I’m not opposed to this, but I have a few questions.  
Will the launcher be included with steam release?  
Will this version have the same level of mod support as current version?  
What is the estimated release window ( if any) for the steam version?  
As a current cataclysm player, what incentive is there to use the steam version over the launcher?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Air](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Air](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Air)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2021, 3:30pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/35 "2021-06-11T15:30:36Z")

</div>

> [@AssumeCroons](#):
>
> I’m a CDDA player, and wannabe contributor. The idea of the Steam version gives me mixed feelings. On the good side, it’s a good game and hopefully more people can play it. On the down side, Valve could be a bad influence. Not the players, mind you - though that community is broader and does include a fair amount of trouble. But Valve does support a variety of ways to sell and distribute games that are not necessarily in sync with open development. So, I’m worried that the change might drive me away, both as a player and as a wannabe contributor.

As Kevin wrote here, this is just another distortion channel. If you are concerned, you don’t run the Steam version, just download it from github. If Steam and its community were to do anything wrong, the game could be removed at any time from Steam.

> [@AssumeCroons](#):
>
> Your [forum profile here](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Air) is relatively new. Have you [contributed](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/graphs/contributors) source code?

Your [forum profile here](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Air) is relatively new. Have you [contributed](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/graphs/contributors) source code?  
No, only on my local computer for fun.

> [@AssumeCroons](#):
>
> Are these “additional restrictions”? Would this therefore contradict the CDDA license, specifically the following two parts of CC3.0?

There will always be problems with licenses. Remember that projects like DDDA are created by amateurs or for fun, they often don’t read the license thoroughly. It is possible that MIT would be a better license for this project. The license allows you to sell the game, DLC are another story. Do You remember OpenIV tool and GTA + Take Two? It all depends on the creator/company.

> [@AssumeCroons](#):
>
> Advertising as “free but with paid DLC” can feel quite shady, both for players and contributors. For players, it follows a manipulative pattern: the free portion is a baited hook. For contributors, does everybody who contributes code know that somebody else will make money off of their work (either via direct sale or by being used to incentivize purchase of paid DLC)?

I don’t know. I’m not interested. DDDA will be free on Steam and my modification (graphics, music, sounds etc. and if players like the modification, I can make it available under the CC license).

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Air](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Air](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Air)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2021, 3:37pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/36 "2021-06-11T15:37:55Z")

</div>

> [@TwinCrows](#):
>
> I know that Steam offers a lot of data to the owners of such store pages. What are your plans for this data? Do you intend to publish it, sell it, or is that only going to be available to yourself? How can we as a community monitor how you use this data? [https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/marketing/google\_analytics](https://partner.steamgames.com/doc/marketing/google_analytics)

Yes, you can add code from Google Analtycis, but only for the product page (website). This is not for the game.

Steam has its statistics:

> **[Steam Charts](https://store.steampowered.com/stats/)**
>
> Top selling and top played games across Steam

[https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam](https://store.steampowered.com/hwsurvey/Steam-Hardware-Software-Survey-Welcome-to-Steam)

> [@Zhilkin](#):
>
> I wonder who would be interested in spending money to know which countries CDDA players are coming from.

I can not agree. The date is the future. Perhaps in the future our world will be overrun by zombies and maybe someone will want to start a shop for the survivors…The data from this game can be very important.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Air](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Air](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Air)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2021, 3:39pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/37 "2021-06-11T15:39:18Z")

</div>

> [@Bio](#):
>
> It’s not that I don’t _want_ to use the launcher, it’s that I _can’t_ use the launcher because its broken since the server host is down. Without the host server I can’t check for updates and download mods and its just a paperweight

There will be a normal version like from github and Steam version. I will create different branches (everyone will be able to choose).

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Air](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/df705f/32.png) [@Air](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Air)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2021, 3:43pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/38 "2021-06-11T15:43:46Z")

</div>

> [@Theawesomeboophis](#):
>
> Will the launcher be included with steam release?  
> Will this version have the same level of mod support as current version?

Steam has branches, so you will be able to choose the same version you are currently using. In this case you will have have updates automatically. Everyone plays CDDA differently, so he must have a choice and if you don’t want to, you can continue to use the official / github site.

The Steam version is primarily about automatic updates and new graphics, sounds, music etc…

Today (I think) I will be launching a page on Steam for CDDA.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Theawesomeboophis](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/theawesomeboophis/32/11202_2.png) [@Theawesomeboophis](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Theawesomeboophis)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2021, 9:24pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/39 "2021-06-11T21:24:34Z")

</div>

Sounds great, I am excited for this and I wish you good luck in your endeavors, I just had a few questions and this cleared some things up, thanks.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![AssumeCroons](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/assumecroons/32/8570_2.png) [@AssumeCroons](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/AssumeCroons)\
**Post date:** [June 12, 2021, 7:55pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/40 "2021-06-12T19:55:17Z")

</div>

> [@Air](#):
>
> As Kevin wrote here, this is just another distortion channel. If you are concerned, you don’t run the Steam version, just download it from github. If Steam and its community were to do anything wrong, the game could be removed at any time from Steam.

Voicing my concern here led to some discussion. I learned from it. Kevin made the project’s position clear. I’m getting pretty clear about yours, too.

Many of the changes that you described aren’t just about Steam distribution. They actually they seem pretty cool. I’m guessing the changes are meant to make the game “fit in” better, since other Steam games set a particular standard, for CDDA to visually look better in comparison with other Steam games. If that’s why the other changes are there, it’s a fine reason. In that case, it’d represent a difference in priority with the main github. It’d be quicker to get things the way you want it on Steam, if you can choose what to focus on. That’d be a good reason to do a shallow fork.

That’s just a guess though. Am I onto something?

Are you going to run the Steam stuff open source on github or anything like that? Will the changes eventually get merged back into the main CDDA?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Alwitus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/7cd45c/32.png) [@Alwitus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Alwitus)\
**Post date:** [June 13, 2021, 2:03pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/41 "2021-06-13T14:03:46Z")

</div>

Awesome, I’m looking forward to this project of yours. Hope it goes well.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Joshbr32](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/joshbr32/32/11476_2.png) [@Joshbr32](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Joshbr32)\
**Post date:** [September 5, 2021, 12:13am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/steam-dark-days-ahead/26348/42 "2021-09-05T00:13:01Z")

</div>

I’m going to bump this because I would like to play this game if it’s on steam, but I cannot find it on the storepage. Was this ever finished? @Air

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