# Stamina and running mod
**URL:** https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470
**Category:** The Lab
**Created:** [June 12, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470 "2014-06-12T16:28:32Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Womble](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Womble)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2014, 1:35am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/21 "2014-06-13T01:35:32Z")
I’m not sure about the assumption that Strength (which Cata models as something like size) really means more Stamina (looks like cardiovascular fitness?). These should be independent factors. Possibly fitness as a skill?
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### Author:  [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2014, 1:42am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/22 "2014-06-13T01:42:49Z")
Might be worthwhile to separate out endurance as it’s own stat yea.
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### Author:  [@Slax](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Slax)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2014, 1:44am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/23 "2014-06-13T01:44:18Z")
Definitely. Stacking more stuff on the existing stats just seems wrong.
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### Author:  [@Womble](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Womble)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2014, 1:50am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/24 "2014-06-13T01:50:21Z")
As a stat would change a lot of things about character build, and it might need to affect other mechanics (tiredness?). I’d still plump for a skill, as the survivor’s fitness is something that should improve - so long as they are a survivor!
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### Author:  [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2014, 3:47am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/25 "2014-06-13T03:47:36Z")
Just to be direct, it makes no sense for endurance to be a skill, it’s a set of physical traits, not something you learn to do 😛
It would start being something you could advance just as soon as we did something similar for the rest of the stats.
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### Author:  [@Murphy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Murphy)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2014, 6:20am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/26 "2014-06-13T06:20:05Z")
Endurance in general should be a stat, but running is a skill. There’s a huge gap IRL between people who can run long distances and people who can’t, and it’s not just endurance but also ability to conserve stamina while running.
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### Author:  [@Womble](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Womble)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2014, 10:34am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/27 "2014-06-13T10:34:23Z")
I’m not sure I really buy into the upgrading stats vision. For one, this will cheapen mutagens and CBMs. It also changes the build priorities from stats=traits\>skills=equipment to traits\>stats=skills=equipment - if that’s the intention, then OK, but these are fairly drastic shifts.
As one part compromise, one part just other way of approaching the problem, maybe endurance can be tied to the character’s hidden Health rating? i.e. A character’s maximum Stamina = x + Health. (I don’t know the range on Health, so x might be 0.) Diet should affect Stamina anyway, so this saves a bit of design space. Past that, a couple of traits could be added to give a character extra or depleted Stamina relative to their Health.
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### Author:  [@StopSignal](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/StopSignal)
#### Post date: [June 13, 2014, 8:06pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/28 "2014-06-13T20:06:06Z")
I’m here with a suggestion. So, we have Walk, wich gains stamina slightly, and Running, wich drains it.
I suggest we have a new one, called Jogging, that would be the middle child, and would reduce stamina slightly less than Running, making it able to jog long distances and not get tired soon. This could be used, for example, when you want to explore long distances in low time, but don’t want to waste time.
Also:
Taking away stamina should give hunger.
There should be a way to have more stamina trough drugs, temporally.
Bionics should give stamina boosts, in some cases.
If you deplete your Stamina bar but NEED to keep running (Because you will die otherwise) i suggest a system like the game I Am Alive, where you could keep using your stamina but it would destroy your muscles, causing your stamina pool to become every time tinier. But for balance reasons, you should recover from this, at least adding 1 stamina point max to the stamina pool until you get the max back at normal:
“This stamina decreases every time players perform climbing or jumping actions and if players over exert themselves they will fall or decrease their maximum stamina until they can recover through food items.”
I would not add the stamina recovering food, however, because it wouldn’t work with Cata. That is why i suggested the adding 1 point per day. Why one point per day? It’s because oversusing stamina should be discouraged. You should need an alert message, too.
If any of this is already in the mod, i’m sorry!
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### Author:  [@Womble](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Womble)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2014, 12:58am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/29 "2014-06-14T00:58:11Z")
Damaging yourself by over-exertion sounds a bit complicated and possibly counter-intuitive.
Jog is roughly where the character movement is right now, and it does make sense as the default so long as the character isn’t heavily burdened. (I wouldn’t be dallying during the Cataclysm!) Maybe build from the assumption that someone carrying a light load can jog at a mild stamina drain (one unit per square). Once you start carrying serious amounts of kit (which is normal in Cata), jogging bleeds out stamina more quickly.
Hitting Tab takes the character up a speed - from Jogging, that starts them Running, which is more energy intensive and faster, as discussed. It’s also a little louder. There’s room for a "Distance Runner’ trait (in lieu of a skill, because I can’t figure out how that would work) to reduce the stamina used when running.
Hitting Alt+Tab takes the character down a speed - if they were Jogging, then that means Walking, which is energy-conserving, slower, and very quiet (silent with Light Step).
There’d be room for a flat sprint on this scheme, but I’m not sure it’s that useful/necessary.
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### Author:  [@FunsizeNinja123](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/FunsizeNinja123)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2014, 1:11am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/30 "2014-06-14T01:11:59Z")
Alt-tab is kinda reserved for something…
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### Author:  [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/31 "2014-06-14T01:12:44Z")
Jogging could be ‘as fast as you can move without depleting stamina’, instead of trying to juggle specific settings to reach that point, so your jog speed would depend on your load, and possibly even your stamina and fatigue levels, but if you’re covering long distances, it’s the way to go.
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### Author:  [@Womble](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Womble)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2014, 1:27am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/32 "2014-06-14T01:27:33Z")
> [@FunsizeNinja123](#):
>
> Alt-tab is kinda reserved for something…
Yeah, sorry. Shift-tab.
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### Author:  [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2014, 4:41am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/33 "2014-06-14T04:41:39Z")
[quote=“StopSignal, post:28, topic:6470”]I’m here with a suggestion. So, we have Walk, wich gains stamina slightly, and Running, wich drains it.
I suggest we have a new one, called Jogging, that would be the middle child, and would reduce stamina slightly less than Running, making it able to jog long distances and not get tired soon. This could be used, for example, when you want to explore long distances in low time, but don’t want to waste time.
Also:
Taking away stamina should give hunger.
There should be a way to have more stamina trough drugs, temporally.
Bionics should give stamina boosts, in some cases.
If you deplete your Stamina bar but NEED to keep running (Because you will die otherwise) i suggest a system like the game I Am Alive, where you could keep using your stamina but it would destroy your muscles, causing your stamina pool to become every time tinier. But for balance reasons, you should recover from this, at least adding 1 stamina point max to the stamina pool until you get the max back at normal:
“This stamina decreases every time players perform climbing or jumping actions and if players over exert themselves they will fall or decrease their maximum stamina until they can recover through food items.”
I would not add the stamina recovering food, however, because it wouldn’t work with Cata. That is why i suggested the adding 1 point per day. Why one point per day? It’s because oversusing stamina should be discouraged. You should need an alert message, too.
If any of this is already in the mod, i’m sorry![/quote]
Hmm.
Jogging (current speed!) would be pretty good. I’m not familiar enough with drugs to comment on their efficacy; agreed that bionics (especially) and mutations could give increased stamina (active hydraulics should vastly increase it, forex) and I like being able to mortgage max-stamina if needed.
Stamina-use probably shouldn’t increase Hunger (or at least not 1:1). Recovering max-stamina would, though.
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### Author:  [@Zireael](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zireael)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2014, 11:59am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/34 "2014-06-14T11:59:39Z")
How about:
1. making Stamina/Endurance a hidden stat derived from Strength + Health (and maybe factor something else in, too)
2. about the costs:
[ul][li]running - default speed + 10 if encumbrance \< 50%; drains stamina[/li]
[li]jogging = default speed ;does nothing to stamina[/li]
[li]walking = default speed - 20; recovers stamina [/li]
[li]stealth = default speed - 40; recovers stamina, reduces noise[/li][/ul]
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### Author:  [@StopSignal](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/StopSignal)
#### Post date: [June 14, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/35 "2014-06-14T15:52:31Z")
I think stealth should actually drain the stamina, at the cost of noise. Also walking without noise requires concentration and effort, also stamina.
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### Author:  [@Zireael](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zireael)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2014, 11:54am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/36 "2014-06-15T11:54:40Z")
Reaper, why did you close the PR?
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### Author:  [@Reaper](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Reaper)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2014, 1:31pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/37 "2014-06-15T13:31:59Z")
> [@Zireael](#):
>
> Reaper, why did you close the PR?
It needed someone?
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### Author:  [@Zireael](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zireael)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2014, 6:31pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/38 "2014-06-15T18:31:54Z")
> [@Reaper](#):
>
> [quote=“Zireael, post:36, topic:6470”]Reaper, why did you close the PR?
It needed someone?[/quote]
um, I don’t get it
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### Author:  [@FunsizeNinja123](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/FunsizeNinja123)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/39 "2014-06-15T21:29:50Z")
You need someone to merge it.
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### Author:  [@Paquito](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Paquito)
#### Post date: [June 15, 2014, 9:39pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/stamina-and-running-mod/6470/40 "2014-06-15T21:39:14Z")
> [@Kevin Granade](#):
>
> Just to be direct, it makes no sense for endurance to be a skill, it’s a set of physical traits, not something you learn to do 😛
Well, in IRL, it’s something that naturally increases the more active you are, in a way that sort of matches the skill system. Plus, making it a “trait” will require re-balancing of starting points, etc etc.
I like Zireael’s suggestion above that it be a hidden stat, although I don’t think it should derive on strength. (Marathon runners and Football players have more stamina than your average person, strength doesn’t make a difference). It should just be based on how much running/fighting your character is doing.
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