So... Martial Arts

swwu · 2013-09-19T10:15:34.000Z

Cool. I’m merging it with each new daily build right now but it’s kind of a pain since there are some fairly extensive changes, so there are always a lot of merge conflicts. Looking forward to seeing this go in though.

GlyphGryph · 2013-09-20T20:28:36.000Z

The sooner you merge it in the less work you have to do to keep it up.

Have you made the PR yet?

swwu · 2013-09-21T20:28:11.000Z

Yep, made a PR. Kevin had some concerns with it that I’m polishing up and then (I imagine) it will be mainline-ready.

UberZacht · 2013-09-21T20:37:22.000Z

Wow, I just made a post that related to this topic, and if this gets integrated with the game, would have solved the problem I had addressed. This is really cool, I love using Martial Arts, having a category of Weapon Martial Arts would be cool (e.g. Iaido, Kendo, Sojutso, etc.). I would like some actual wrestling styles, like standard Olympic Wrestling and Sumo. Ya Know?

Mrnocamera · 2013-09-22T07:17:41.000Z

Kendo with katanas. Zombies gonna be smacked.

Rivet · 2013-09-22T07:24:53.000Z

Oh weapon styles!

Perhaps we can get some ARMA stuff eventually.

I’d love to have some proper European martial art forms in order to handle my große Schlachtschwert with a degree of competence.

Tally · 2013-09-22T08:07:15.000Z

Along these lines, I don’t see anything wrong with implementing untrained tactics ‘styles’ that you start with by default. Think the tactics feature of ADOM but somewhat more elaborate. I should think that a basic tactic ‘style’ should be mostly stripped down, i.e. a mild passive effect only, or a block in highly defensive tactics.

swwu · 2013-09-22T11:49:54.000Z

Okay, we’re merged into mainline. Should be tryable in experimental builds soon.

KA101 · 2013-09-22T21:13:42.000Z

[quote=“Rivet, post:22, topic:2930”]Oh weapon styles!

Perhaps we can get some ARMA stuff eventually.

I’d love to have some proper European martial art forms in order to handle my große Schlachtschwert with a degree of competence.[/quote]

Oh–were you the one who linked Knight v. Samurai? Thanks!

(Even though the author was getting a bit pushy there, the essays are worthwhile.)

Rivet · 2013-09-22T21:25:08.000Z

Yeah the author’s massive ego really shows through in that article but it still made a very good point about the different ways the two cultures approach their martial arts, or fancy armed dance routines, as the case may be.

xLemor · 2013-09-24T02:36:58.000Z

Good article and its a shame that they couldnt do it
It would be very interesting to watch but said “masters” didnt want to spar amateurs?
What a deception, i always admired japanese martial arts and now im not so sure… its not supposed to be just for shows and flashy manuvers but i guess thats how they turned it into. So much for the warrior’s spirit crap…

Mattamue · 2013-09-25T05:23:30.000Z

Systema could be a fun addition as a knife fighting martial art, which isn’t 100% true, but matches the cutting weapons book and is kinda close

You’ll have to help me with the code, make sure to note the comments lines for sure :), not a programmer

martialarts.json:

{
"id": "style_systema",
"name": "Systema",
"can_leg_block": true,
"desc": "A Russian martial art that focuses on controlling the six body levers through pressure points, striking and weapons. The discipline's core teachings are in movements that are powerful, precise, instant, economical, and spontaneous. Varying attacks will boost speed and damage.",
"onhit_buffs": [
  {
    "id": "systema_hit_buff",
    "name": "Systema Spontaneity",
    "desc": "+1 speed per stack",
    "unarmed_allowed": true,
    "min_unarmed": 5,
    "buff_duration": 10,
    "max_stacks": 10,
    "speed": 1
  }
  {
    "id": "systema_edge_buff",
    "name": "Systema Supremacy",
    "desc": "+2 cutting damage per stack",
    "unarmed_allowed": false,
    "wield": knife,                                 //Is this real?
    "min_cutting": 5,
    "buff_duration": 5,
    "max_stacks": 3,
    "cut": 2
  }
],
"onmove_buffs": [],
"techniques": ["tec_systema_weakpoint", "tec_systema_fulcrum"]
},

techniques.json:

[code]
{
“id”: “tec_systema_weakpoint”,
“name”: “weak point”,
“min_unarmed”: 2,
“unarmed_allowed”: true,
“crit_tec”: true,

"verb_you": "%1$s hit a weak point on %4$s",
"verb_npc": "%1$s hits a weak point on %4$s",

"stun_dur": 2

},
{
“id”: “tec_systema_fulcrum”,
“name”: “fulcrum”,
“min_cutting”: 5,
“unarmed_allowed”: false,

"verb_you": "%1$s use fulcrum force on %4$s",
"verb_npc": "%1$s uses fulcrum force on %4$s",

"cut_mult": 3

},[/code]

An0n3 · 2013-09-26T16:59:33.000Z

Backyard Wrestling.

Make it happen.

Bonuses to smacking things with improvised weapon. Anything wrapped in barbed wire. No movement penalties for standing on tables and benches. Amazing damage and stun when wielding a folding steel chair. Random chance to botch whenever attacking, causes random leg/head injuries.

Mrnocamera · 2013-09-26T17:05:47.000Z

I was wielding akido with a golf cart and a 9-iron. FORE!

FunsizeNinja123 · 2013-09-26T20:05:41.000Z

BARBED WIRE WRAPPED WEAPONS.

WHY HAVEN’T WE THOUGHT ABOUT THIS BEFORE

An0n3 · 2013-09-26T20:13:28.000Z

You guys just aren’t hardcore like me. Superplexing zombies into tables covered in barbed wire.

keldoclock · 2013-09-29T19:30:48.000Z

[quote=“xLemor, post:27, topic:2930”]Good article and its a shame that they couldnt do it
It would be very interesting to watch but said “masters” didnt want to spar amateurs?
What a deception, i always admired japanese martial arts and now im not so sure… its not supposed to be just for shows and flashy manuvers but i guess thats how they turned it into. So much for the warrior’s spirit crap…[/quote]

There’s a difference between Asian and Western martial arts, a lot of the asian martial arts have been preserved and mythologized over the centuries until they are part performance art, part fighting. With western martial arts, most of them are new and have their origins in military fighting, or are modified versions of other martial arts (like Brazillian ju jitsu). Not to say there aren’t extremely effective asian martial arts like Muai Thai, just not as many.

When it comes to swordfighting, the japanese tradition is descended from the old samurai schools, but a lot of it has been warped with time. Western swordfighting is mostly based on some incomplete copies of a book called Flower of Battle written by this guy and recreation attempts.

Neither is really anything like what was historically practiced

At any rate, if a samurai and a knight from the same time period fought, the knight would win, hands down, because of armor. Japan is a resource-poor island chain, and there was very little metal available historically- this is why samurai armor was laminate instead of steel or chainmail. The swords, as well, were made of inferior quality materials.

The armies of Europe have been warring from the dawn of time to about fifty years ago, but Japan was protected in their island from large, dangerous foes. As they had nobody to fight but each other, there was not much incentive to develop new and effective ways to murder their fellow man.

GlyphGryph · 2013-09-30T15:45:00.000Z

Just as a note: I’ve started a new thread to discuss the merits of inclusion for various martial arts, and good ways to implement and differentiate them.

http://smf.cataclysmdda.com/index.php?topic=3512.msg50643#msg50643

kevin.granade · 2013-09-30T16:43:24.000Z

keldoclock:

At any rate, if a samurai and a knight from the same time period fought, the knight would win, hands down, because of armor. Japan is a resource-poor island chain, and there was very little metal available historically- this is why samurai armor was laminate instead of steel or chainmail. The swords, as well, were made of inferior quality materials.

Right, because the samurai would be a total moron and pit their weaknesses against the knight’s strengths, instead of utilizing their greater mobility to tire out their opponent, or using a bow, or fighting on uneven ground, or any number of other strategems. I’m not saying it tilts in the other direction, because the armor is a huge advantage, but categorically calling it for the western fighter just because of the armor is silly.

An0n3 · 2013-09-30T16:50:52.000Z

Arguing these “what-ifs” are always silly.

Rather than try to decide who would win I think it’s more constructive to just compare the differences between the two.

Also Knight was a title that had to be earned. Samurai was a class. You could be born into being a samurai, and just being in that class didn’t mean you had dedicated your life to martial prowess. People were born nobles and had to work to become recognized as a knight.

So if you pick a random knight from history, you stand a pretty good chance of getting a guy that knows how to wear his armor and fight with his weapons.

If you pick a random samurai you might luck out and get the lord’s accountant and tax collector who has no idea what the hell he’s doing.