# Shouldn't the gasmask give at least minor glare protection?

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [January 29, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869 "2018-01-29T00:51:47Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/1 "2018-01-29T00:51:48Z")

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Well, with how a gasmask is I just can’t help but having some glare protection would make sense. Yes it is a \_gas\_mask, but it still seems fitting to me. I don’t care too much about this, but I just thought I should bring it up.  
Side mention, if it doesn’t I feel like it should provide at minor radiation protection when you don’t have anything else that stops it, and full (or almost full) radiation protection if you have a full on hazmat suit or other thing that works the same.

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**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 1:02am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/2 "2018-01-29T01:02:48Z")

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Proper hazmat/ANBC suits do fully stop radiation. They’re just too encumbering to be viable considering they give next to no armor rating.

A gas mask on it’s own might help a bit, but most radioactive materials would be just as happy sitting on your skin or clothing as being sucked into your lungs. It would help, but I’m not sure if it would make a noticeable difference on it’s own, depending on what you did during/after exposure.

Gasmasks could probably stand to have glare protection, maybe even add a military grade variant with glare protection and higher armor rating.

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**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 1:15am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/3 "2018-01-29T01:15:06Z")

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While there are plenty of negatives to wearing the gas mask (mostly just massive encumbrance and not the best of armor) I almost _always_ wear them since they are so good for the surprise boomer, smoker, or bloater I might run into. And it gives decent heat and full mouth/face coverage so you don’t get your face ripped off as easily.  
A military grade variant would make lots of sense to me, and for it to just plain be a lot better, but I _still_ feel basic gas masks should have at least basic glare protection.

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**Author:** ![kuros](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kuros/32/1788_2.png) [@kuros](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kuros)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 3:06am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/4 "2018-01-29T03:06:30Z")

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All the gasmasks I have seen use untinted glass. The ones I’ve worn would suggest that, if anything, they should reduce perception. The gas gets dirty, steams up, etc. Certainly doesn’t do anything for glare.

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**Author:** ![Zhilkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zhilkin/32/3749_2.png) [@Zhilkin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zhilkin)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 7:56am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/5 "2018-01-29T07:56:35Z")

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> [@redxlaser15](#):
>
> Shouldn’t the gasmask give at least minor glare protection?

No, gas mask should not give glare protection.

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**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 9:36am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/6 "2018-01-29T09:36:02Z")

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Considering that most wide-brimmed hats gives glare protection I would expect the limited vision on a gasmask to give a similar effect, depending on what particular design of mask it’s meant to be.

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**Author:** ![Zhilkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zhilkin/32/3749_2.png) [@Zhilkin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zhilkin)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 2:59pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/7 "2018-01-29T14:59:19Z")

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> [@darktoes](#):
>
> Considering that most wide-brimmed hats gives glare protection I would expect the limited vision on a gasmask to give a similar effect, depending on what particular design of mask it’s meant to be.

Limited vision? Look at the images: [https://www.google.ru/search?q=gas+mask&tbm=isch](https://www.google.ru/search?q=gas+mask&tbm=isch)

What part of gas mask limits vision?

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**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 4:24pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/8 "2018-01-29T16:24:22Z")

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The part that cataclysm says has limited vision. You have less perception due to high encumbrance, while basically simulates having ‘limited vision’ from the mask.

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**Author:** ![Zhilkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zhilkin/32/3749_2.png) [@Zhilkin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zhilkin)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/9 "2018-01-29T16:28:34Z")

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> [@redxlaser15](#):
>
> The part that cataclysm says has limited vision. You have less perception due to high encumbrance, while basically simulates having ‘limited vision’ from the mask.

Still, gas mask do not have brim or tinted visor - therefore no glare protection

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**Author:** ![Viik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/45deac/32.png) [@Viik](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Viik)\
**Post date:** [January 29, 2018, 5:23pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/10 "2018-01-29T17:23:43Z")

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Try wearing one, in best case you are looking through two hole cutouts in front of your eyes, in worst case you get inreflection and glare on the glass itself, especially if it has a bit of dust on it. If you have to run few miles in this crap, it starts to feel up with sweat which mixes with dirt and dust. They are quite heavy too.

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**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 12:34am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/11 "2018-01-30T00:34:26Z")

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> [@Zhilkin](#):
>
> What part of gas mask limits vision?

The part where you’re looking out of two little round bits of glass and the rest is thick black plastic?

I’m not saying it definitely should be that way, but putting glare protection on gasmasks wouldn’t be a bad idea, and that’s one way to justify it.

> [@Zhilkin](#):
>
> Still, gas mask do not have brim or tinted visor - therefore no glare protection

There’s a little bit of a brim. Most of the designs you showed come away from the face a bit before having the goggles/glass, so you could feasibly say that it gives a glare protection effect, even if it’s not particularly strong.

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**Author:** ![Kryxx](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kryxx/32/438_2.png) [@Kryxx](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Kryxx)\
**Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:25am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/12 "2018-01-30T05:25:37Z")

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Glare protection would mean they are tinted. Ever wear sunglasses at night or in the dark?  
How about smoke? Let’s limit what you can see more by cutting down how well you see in clouded and darkness. It’s not going to work.

IRL, There are ski goggles to cut down glare, they are typically orange/yellow tint. Possibly could get that style to work for sun glare, but it wouldn’t work for welding.

I only put on a mask when I need it. When I do, it’s often the firefighters PBA Mask.

Be glad the game doesn’t cut your vision with sunglasses at night.

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**Author:** ![Zhilkin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zhilkin/32/3749_2.png) [@Zhilkin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zhilkin)\
**Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 6:17am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/13 "2018-01-30T06:17:51Z")

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> [@darktoes](#):
>
> The part where you’re looking out of two little round bits of glass and the rest is thick black plastic?

Transparent plastic or glass do not give glare protection - moreover it even make glares worse. Opaque plastic all over your cheek, your chin or back of your head also does not give to do anything with glare protection.

> [@darktoes](#):
>
> There’s a little bit of a brim. Most of the designs you showed come away from the face a bit before having the goggles/glass, so you could feasibly say that it gives a glare protection effect, even if it’s not particularly strong.

The brim is neglible - it is not aimed to provide cover from glare.

Sunglasses have GLARE protection of 1.  
Welding masks and firefighter helmets have GLARE protection of 2.  
Gas masks should have 0 and that is what they have now.

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**Author:** ![darktoes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b9e5f3/32.png) [@darktoes](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/darktoes)\
**Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 7:56am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/14 "2018-01-30T07:56:40Z")

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> [@Zhilkin](#):
>
> The brim is neglible - it is not aimed to provide cover from glare.

It’s not aimed to do that, but it could help. A lot of the hats in game give glare protection even though they probably wouldn’t make much more difference.  
Again, I’m not arguing that the gasmask should have glare protection, I’m just saying that it could, and there is a logical reason why it could.

> [@Kryxx](#):
>
> Glare protection would mean they are tinted. Ever wear sunglasses at night or in the dark?
> 
> How about smoke? Let’s limit what you can see more by cutting down how well you see in clouded and darkness. It’s not going to work.  
> …  
> Be glad the game doesn’t cut your vision with sunglasses at night.

Glare protection can also be gained by having a brimmed hat, like the fedora, cowboy hat or straw hat.

Sunglasses have a fairly large amount of eye encumbrance which affects your view distance at night, so it is modelled in game. Probably not as much as it should be though.

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**Author:** ![Litppunk](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/litppunk/32/409_2.png) [@Litppunk](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Litppunk)\
**Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 2:03pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/15 "2018-01-30T14:03:32Z")

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Hats keep being referenced for why the gas mask should have glare protection. A standard pre-cataclysm gas mask barely has a brow over the lens, compared to a hats 5" or so brim, which I would see as having something comparable to a quadratic effect on glare protection.

And it has 1 at a bare minimum of 4", a 1/2" to 1" brow would be comparable to a .1 glare protection. Something there is NO mechanic in place for. Best case you can argue is a more granular glare protection mechanic, and this is the WORST case to argue for it.

As Viik pointed out BEST case (almost impossible in most post apocalyptic scenarios for the STANDARD lenses is that there is that it is equivalent to looking through a cardboard cutout, which means loss of peripheral vision, something that can only be simulated by increasing EYE\_ENCUMBRANCE, which is exactly what the mechanic is intended for.

Thats BEST case though, considering its a lens probably a minimum of an inch from the lens of your eyes, theres a lot of largely unavoidable problems to run into, and negation of which would cause more problems than it would solve.

Case 1: flat lens- any flexibility in the mask means that the lenses are going to move out of position or be distorted, changing how light refracts through them, increasing glare and generally making it so that things at the edge of the lens are harder to see properly due to light coming from an angle through a flat surface.

thats not even including things like scratches on the lens, or fog and condensation on the inside of the lens, or dirt and grime on both sides. Have you ever worn goggles underwater? some still leaks in, and just a little is enough to get the whole thing foging without extra measures being taken.

Thats in cold water where your not sweating behind the lenses. The effect would be even worse when its a full face covering, holding in heat and keeping the water from ever leaving. And if you managed to cool down behind the mask again, the salt would remain on the lenses.

Case 2: round lens - Congrats, less peripheral vision loss, but now you don’t have any depth perception, which means dodging anything is going to be difficult, and making sense of any peripheral things is going to be difficult due to how distorted they are. Insects have eyes like this, but They are adapted to make use of them, have MANY of them, not 2, because that is necessary for this kind of lens to not be a total loss. Even then they have essentially no ability to see at a distance.

Case 3: Near match to curve of the lens of your eye but further out. Mitigates most of the angle problems, but glare is still going to be an issue due to diffraction, and unlike the lenses of your eyes which have muscles to adjust the curve of your lens, allowing you to see at different distances, the mask lens is set to certain curve, so any curve less or greater than that is going to cause some distortion similar to wearing prescription glasses that don’t match your eyes. All other problems also persist.

TLDR: Even a high quality over the counter mask is going to have things that give the equivalent of EYE\_ENCUMERANCE, and even with that accounted for should, if anything, give a negative glare rating.

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**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 4:25pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/16 "2018-01-30T16:25:23Z")

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Heh, you guys just reminded me of this song:

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**Author:** ![Litppunk](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/litppunk/32/409_2.png) [@Litppunk](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Litppunk)\
**Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 5:52pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/17 "2018-01-30T17:52:50Z")

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Eh, at least when wearing sunglasses at night, you can take them off and clean them without ruining the purpose of wearing them in the first place.

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**Author:** ![Mantar](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mantar/32/42_2.png) [@Mantar](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Mantar)\
**Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 8:50pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/18 "2018-01-30T20:50:55Z")

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You know, studies have shown that 90% of white guys can sing like this!

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**Author:** ![kuros](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kuros/32/1788_2.png) [@kuros](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kuros)\
**Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/19 "2018-01-30T21:26:27Z")

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90% can sing while wearing gasmasks?

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**Author:** ![Mantar](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/mantar/32/42_2.png) [@Mantar](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Mantar)\
**Post date:** [January 30, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shouldnt-the-gasmask-give-at-least-minor-glare-protection/14869/20 "2018-01-30T21:27:46Z")

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I don’t think there’s any data on that. I was talking about Corey Hart up there.

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