Should cauterization exist?

[Wanderer]

[quote=“Pthalocy, post:42, topic:8022”][quote=“Funk, post:41, topic:8022”]Really what we need is multiple treatments.
That way we can have all the bad ideas for treating wounds that we can think off.
Now should cauterization stay?
I’d say yes because it’s likely that some one with out proper supplys and a bleeding wound will try cauterization to stop the bleeding.[/quote]

Which is really the only problem worth the risk of cautery imo! Keep cautery specifically for last-ditch bleeding fixes, introduce a new function similar to the one I made up for cleaning wounds that is also sketchy as hell.

Only downside will be if we make the old method a stupid move, introduce a smarter, new method, and then watch as the entire community doesn’t catch on right away and does the stupid cautery move based entirely on previously-correct game knowledge.

That’ll suck for a number of people to re-learn.[/quote]

Maybe a warning when people use the experimental with the change when the game loads, after their first step that cauterizing is far less useful, now, it should work. Or a warning at the menu with the cauterization option, or a change in it’s name, maybe instead of “Cauterize Wound”, “Try To Messily Sterilize Wound”.

[system]

Maybe a warning when people use the experimental with the change when the game loads, after their first step that cauterizing is far less useful, now, it should work. Or a warning at the menu with the cauterization option, or a change in it’s name, maybe instead of “Cauterize Wound”, “Try To Messily Sterilize Wound”.

Why not “debride wound” or “debride infection” then? In which case you’d need a cutting implement instead of a burning implement.

[Pthalocy]

[quote=“Robik, post:39, topic:8022”]I don’t know… wouldn’t pouring it in high percent alcohol worked like disinfectant?

This?[/quote]

To get an alcohol that is high enough percentage, you either need access to a distillation process that is very, very fiddly (boiling point of booze but not water is difficult to maintain without proper equipment), or just find rubbing alcohol. If you find rubbing alcohol, which IS strong enough - then what you have is already a bottle of disinfectant.

Booze intended for drinking is generally not strong enough of a guarantee, though it could possibly help. I’d have to do some reading on the subject.

[quote=“Wanderer, post:44, topic:8022”]Maybe a warning when people use the experimental with the change when the game loads, after their first step that cauterizing is far less useful, now, it should work. Or a warning at the menu with the cauterization option, or a change in it’s name, maybe instead of “Cauterize Wound”, “Try To Messily Sterilize Wound”.

Why not “debride wound” or “debride infection” then? In which case you’d need a cutting implement instead of a burning implement.[/quote]

Most of the items available for the current cauterization process ARE cutting implements. I just like the idea of rendering the blade sterile with heat, since that’s more feasible than heat-treating the wound.

[i2amroy]

[quote=“Robik, post:39, topic:8022”]I don’t know… wouldn’t pouring it in high percent alcohol worked like disinfectant?

This?[/quote]
Actually, like Hydrogen Peroxide, most alcohols tend to cause enough damage and slow healing enough that you are better of just using running water and a mild soap. AFAIK it does somewhat (bot not totally) disinfect the wound, but it also does enough damage to the nearby cells that the increased wound healing time overwhelms that aspect.

[Pthalocy]

I will fully admit that both my helix earring piercings got infected after using the soap and water method, and it took more aggressive peroxide to clean the infection out faster than it wanted to build up. once it was cleaned the tissue was pretty dry, yeah. Not the fastest way to heal, but it did work to get me back to my starting point of a healing wound. I had the fortune of a safe home environment instead of the apocalypse though.

Lesson learned, you need to keep your hands as far the fuck away as possible from your injuries, no matter how often you clean the injury or your hands. Touching it in-between is enough to fuck everything up all over again.

[Valpo]

i wonder what effects the time i mean er dunno how to word it eh when your body decides oh this wound shall now get infected.
i mean it isn t just a dirty wound or deep wound.
i mean i cut my leg open on a splitered glass tombstone in a dusty cellar.
i didn t clean the wound
it bled like crazy
shortly thereafter i put a plaster on and continued working.
it healed quite nicely and fast
it was a pretty deep cut too

[Maur]

That’ll suck for a number of people to re-learn.

Well, at least they will know better how to deal with wounds in case of real world Zombie apocalypse :d

[Maur]

[quote=“Valpo, post:49, topic:8022”]i wonder what effects the time i mean er dunno how to word it eh when your body decides oh this wound shall now get infected.
i mean it isn t just a dirty wound or deep wound.
i mean i cut my leg open on a splitered glass tombstone in a dusty cellar.
i didn t clean the wound
it bled like crazy
shortly thereafter i put a plaster on and continued working.
it healed quite nicely and fast
it was a pretty deep cut too[/quote]
You were lucky, well-fed, well-slept etc, and dusty tombstone actually carries not a lot of bacteria*, especially compared to Zombie teeth?

*Afaik, bacteria dont actually like dirt but environments where there are nutrients. Glass is not very biologically fertile, i would guess.

[Hardluck]

[quote=“Pthalocy, post:46, topic:8022”]To get an alcohol that is high enough percentage, you either need access to a distillation process that is very, very fiddly (boiling point of booze but not water is difficult to maintain without proper equipment), or just find rubbing alcohol. If you find rubbing alcohol, which IS strong enough - then what you have is already a bottle of disinfectant.

Booze intended for drinking is generally not strong enough of a guarantee, though it could possibly help. I’d have to do some reading on the subject.[/quote]

Doesn’t the game already have a chemistry set that is used for a lot more complicated recipes?

Granted that making strong alcohol with a small set from beer or wine would be very impractical, but distilling moonshine with a still isn’t that complicated or demanding. It’s slow though, and would have to be made in huge patches to be worthwhile (talking about several hundred units of clean water and a LOT of fruits, vegetables or straight up sugar). But you could then use the chemistry set to make medical grade ethanol from the moonshine, or from the booze randomly generated in the world. And yeah, I agree that if used directly on the wound it should be less effective than proper disinfectant.

As for my two cents on cauterization, yes, it’s not realistically done in the game. But the game needs (in my opinion) some easy but “costly” way for a starting character to deal with deep bites, other than pure luck. Until there is a more expansive medical system than “eating” (OK, but functionally similar process) bandages to get HP instantly back, I’m not really bothered that the action by which you can remove the blue wounds is mislabeled.

(Edit: Must have spaced out in the middle of a sentence, fixed now. Sorry if I confused someone)

[Pthalocy]

A little off-subject, but for what it is worth, tetanus does indeed reside in soil. It likes anaerobic environments, which is why puncture wounds are so often the cause of their introduction. It has an endospore mode that lets it sit inert until it arrives in a suitable environment. So tetanus does not mind.

I actually forgot about chemistry sets! Yes, one of those would be an appropriate requirement for distilling alcohol to a percentage usable for disinfecting purposes, if it isn’t already a recipe for making disinfectant. I need sleep.

[Maur]

As for my two cents on cauterization, yes, it’s not realistically done in the game. But the game needs (in my opinion) some easy but “costly” way for a starting character to deal with deep bites, other than pure luck. Until there is a more expansive medical system than “eating” (OK, but functionally similar process) bandages to get HP instantly back, I’m not really bothered that the action by which you can remove the blue wounds is mislabeled.

You know what, i take back all i said about cauterization :d

(okay, i would say it could be gotten rid of not to perpetuate the myth. Also, i dont use bandages since i find them terribly unrealistic. Perhaps if i hadnt had fast healer, i would change my mind…)

[NOMOETOE]

I think cauterization should stay. However, it should be just a thing to do when you have stop the bleeding now, or else.

[FunsizeNinja123]

I think cauterization should stay. However, it should be just a thing to do when you have stop the bleeding now, or else.

[Maur]

Hey, look what i found! The hope for another long-term solution apparently didnt materialize (its a year and half old)

[quote=“Soron, post:16, topic:569”]I got annoyed with the limited number of ways to treat bite wounds today, and decided to add another way to prevent them from becoming infected: cauterize the buggers. No first aid kits anywhere? Don’t want to wait until it’s an infection to treat it, or don’t have antibiotics either? Heat up your trusty soldering iron, burn off some flesh, and voila! Good as new*!

I think it’s being tested for inclusion in the main repo now. It’s just a quickie patch for now, I imagine that long-term we’ll end up with more intuitive ways to deal with bites.

*Note: Do not attempt painful procedures while in combat or while operating heavy vehicles. Do not attempt in meatspace, modern medicine questions the efficacy.[/quote]

[Pthalocy]

Well shit, that explains a lot.

[iceball3]

Pouring bleach on the wound?
Granted you could say that the damage done may make it vulnerable to infection, but unless that argument sees representation in normal injuries (getting shot, cut on glass, cut on rubble, actually burned, acid, bitten by bears, etc) then the point is kind of moot…

[Pthalocy]

Cuts on glass and rubble (or was it metal wreckage?) have the chance to cause tetanus, so in some respects this is actually reflected. I think some animals have the same capability to give deep bite wounds as well. It’s far from universal though.

The nature of bite wounds lends to them being significantly more infectious than the regular environment (puncture shape, bacterial contents of mouth), so it’s unsurprising to me that there simply is no infection chance for the other situations.

My vote? Infection chance for burns over a certain severity, due to the surface area exposed. Potentially the same for acids. Would have to be quite low so not everything is a gamestopper.

One could always introduce a sort of “minor” infection - one that you can get from scrapes and cuts on crap, but that isn’t lethal, and isn’t tetanus. It might cause some sort of debuff or encumbrance on the affected limb until it is cleaned out or heals naturally. It could have better odds of healing up on its own as compared to the deep bite wound infection, but still be irritating enough (gross and pussy pain! maybe npc’s don’t like it!) to want to risk finding treatment for. Maybe there’s a really unlikely chance for it to develop into the worse sort of infection, less as a real threat, more to light a fire under the survivor’s butt to do something about it. That might be interesting.

[iceball3]

A major issue is determining what exactly constitutes wounds, as they are? Is having less than full health considered having open wounds or is it something else? As it is,you can be scratched and hit and ripped up all through a town, and so long as you have no confirmed infections, you have no threat to having infections when all limbs are || and unbandaged, but, conversley, bashing damage as well as electricity can also bring you to that level. The main issue is the ambiguity in what a wound "means"
Also Pthalocy, if tetanus is in the game, shouldn’t tetanus vacines be in, too?

[system]

Also Pthalocy, if tetanus is in the game, shouldn’t tetanus vacines be in, too?

Maybe “Up to Date Vaccinations” should be an available trait, making you immune to tetanus and flu and resistant to infections.

[Pthalocy]

It’s been implied (in other threads? Shit I suck at sourcing) that the flu-like and cold-like things we experience are not in fact the common ones of pre-cataclysm days, though it would seem that flu shots still have some effect in mitigating their likelihood through boosting your immune system (via very generic health attribute).

Tetanus was not included in that new disease variant category, but pointing out a lack of tetanus vaccines is a damn good point to be made. As is the ambiguity of injuries. The only time they exist as static objects is when they ARE infected. My proposed changes wouldn’t make wounds any less ambiguous, but it might make different damage sources a little more unique. A little.

Frankly, the whole concept needs smoothing over. I like your thoughts on it.