# Shocker Brutes are too strong
**URL:** https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388
**Category:** The Garage
**Created:** [September 18, 2014, 8:00pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388 "2014-09-18T20:00:37Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@dragonlaggin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/dragonlaggin)
#### Post date: [September 26, 2014, 12:09am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/21 "2014-09-26T00:09:10Z")
> [@Bonevomit](#):
>
> I for one would like to see an expansion of every zombie type having a brute and hulk counterpart. Shocker brutes one of my favorite developments in the game.
After adding the shocker brutes I contemplated an expansion of most zombie types. I may make a PR sooner or later.
---
### Author:  [@Bonevomit](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Bonevomit)
#### Post date: [September 26, 2014, 3:39am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/22 "2014-09-26T03:39:56Z")
> [@Rivet](#):
>
> [quote=“Coolthulhu, post:19, topic:7388”](and scientist brutes) only sound like a good joke enemy to see while hallucinating.
What’s wrong with big, scary scientist zeds?[/quote]
They release chicken walkers instead of manhacks. That’s what’s wrong with them.
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### Author:  [@Rivet](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Rivet)
#### Post date: [September 26, 2014, 5:00am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/23 "2014-09-26T05:00:03Z")
> [@Bonevomit](#):
>
> [quote=“Rivet, post:20, topic:7388”][quote=“Coolthulhu, post:19, topic:7388”](and scientist brutes) only sound like a good joke enemy to see while hallucinating.
What’s wrong with big, scary scientist zeds?[/quote]
They release chicken walkers instead of manhacks. That’s what’s wrong with awesome about them.[/quote]
Fixed that for you.
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### Author:  [@Robik](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Robik)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2014, 9:17pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/24 "2014-09-29T21:17:28Z")
They can stunlock you even from range ☹
I was shooting on one from my rr bow from max distance, few shots as he was closing. When he was at half of distance, he paralyzed me, got to melee range, paralyzed me again, attacked me repeatedly and after 15 or so turns I got from stun lock finally and headshot finished him.
So, be careful people, they are real bastards.
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### Author:  [@Deveak](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Deveak)
#### Post date: [September 29, 2014, 10:50pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/25 "2014-09-29T22:50:31Z")
Maybe a small nerf. Like the shock stun length or range, at that melee damage range its just a bit to much. Either that or make them a lot rarer. I like the idea of a real super hard boss character but if they are in the game they need to be very uncommon with a short aggro range, so you can find it, retreat and prepare for it. Some form of stealth might help.
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### Author:  [@infectedmochi](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/infectedmochi)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 6:56am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/26 "2014-09-30T06:56:47Z")
> [@Deveak](#):
>
> Either that or make them a lot rarer.
Unless my prediction are off, they SHOULD be pretty rare now as I reduced their spawn down sometimes ago. The rarity should be about “miniboss rare”.
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### Author:  [@prytoclasm](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/prytoclasm)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 11:27am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/27 "2014-09-30T11:27:55Z")
Recently in a new game met one, me & my Glock against ‘it’. … I won. Got hit once but dodged! all other attacks, with 0 dodge. I call this: RNG loves me! Though, died later on … car exploded due to … well … no, not here.
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### Author:  [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 3:28pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/28 "2014-09-30T15:28:04Z")
You already see further than them, and they _glow_. I’m not sure how much more help you want against them.
Skimming through the thread again, had an evil thought. What if we made the bloated zombie blasts fling things, then they could try to launch zombies at the player with their blast 😃
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### Author:  [@Deveak](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Deveak)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 3:41pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/29 "2014-09-30T15:41:17Z")
I’m all for hard enemies kevin but eventually it gets to the point where you can’t even find a backpack before something mutilates you. There needs to be options and ways to get away. Super fast enemies get old quick. Especially if they can stun, mutilate and stop you easily in some way.
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### Author:  [@Abbysynth](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Abbysynth)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 3:52pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/30 "2014-09-30T15:52:40Z")
[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:28, topic:7388”]You already see further than them, and they _glow_. I’m not sure how much more help you want against them.
Skimming through the thread again, had an evil thought. What if we made the bloated zombie blasts fling things, then they could try to launch zombies at the player with their blast :D[/quote]
Should make hulk-type zombies able to pick up and throw other adjacent zombies. Zombie dog-a-pult. 🙂
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### Author:  [@FunsizeNinja123](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/FunsizeNinja123)
#### Post date: [September 30, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/31 "2014-09-30T22:15:54Z")
[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:28, topic:7388”]You already see further than them, and they _glow_. I’m not sure how much more help you want against them.
Skimming through the thread again, had an evil thought. What if we made the bloated zombie blasts fling things, then they could try to launch zombies at the player with their blast :D[/quote]
DO IT
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### Author:  [@dragonlaggin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/dragonlaggin)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2014, 2:40am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/32 "2014-10-01T02:40:02Z")
[quote=“FunsizeNinja123, post:31, topic:7388”][quote=“Kevin Granade, post:28, topic:7388”]You already see further than them, and they _glow_. I’m not sure how much more help you want against them.
Skimming through the thread again, had an evil thought. What if we made the bloated zombie blasts fling things, then they could try to launch zombies at the player with their blast :D[/quote]
DO IT[/quote]
Pls based-kevin
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### Author:  [@X-PLODE](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/X-PLODE)
#### Post date: [October 1, 2014, 2:48am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/33 "2014-10-01T02:48:39Z")
[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:28, topic:7388”]You already see further than them, and they _glow_. I’m not sure how much more help you want against them.
Skimming through the thread again, had an evil thought. What if we made the bloated zombie blasts fling things, then they could try to launch zombies at the player with their blast :D[/quote]
As long as it doesn’t break walls or move things on the ground and only breaks windows, i’m up for it.
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### Author:  [@Flash](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Flash)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2014, 12:56am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/34 "2014-10-12T00:56:41Z")
I’m all for difficulty but I was a bit disappointed when I found out that rubber gloves don’t protect you from getting shocked when melee-hitting shocker zombies (unarmed in this case). Would it trivialize this type of enemy too much if rubber equibment (boots, gloves) would somewhat help against the paralyzing shocks?
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### Author:  [@FunsizeNinja123](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/FunsizeNinja123)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2014, 3:22am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/35 "2014-10-12T03:22:19Z")
> [@Flash](#):
>
> I’m all for difficulty but I was a bit disappointed when I found out that rubber gloves don’t protect you from getting shocked when melee-hitting shocker zombies (unarmed in this case). Would it trivialize this type of enemy too much if rubber equibment (boots, gloves) would somewhat help against the paralyzing shocks?
WHY HAVEN’T WE THOUGHT OF THIS BEFORE
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### Author:  [@Cherry](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Cherry)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2014, 7:06am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/36 "2014-10-12T07:06:27Z")
Rubber god-damn gloves.
It was right under our noses all along.
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### Author:  [@EkarusRyndren](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/EkarusRyndren)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2014, 9:41am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/37 "2014-10-12T09:41:46Z")
> [@Flash](#):
>
> I’m all for difficulty but I was a bit disappointed when I found out that rubber gloves don’t protect you from getting shocked when melee-hitting shocker zombies (unarmed in this case). Would it trivialize this type of enemy too much if rubber equibment (boots, gloves) would somewhat help against the paralyzing shocks?
That said if I remember correctly some stuff (like the ceramic MBR vest and Dragon Skin vest) have increased electrical resistance
I DEMAND THE SUNRISE SUIT. FROM RIVTECH.
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### Author:  [@Sunflash](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Sunflash)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2014, 5:02pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/38 "2014-10-12T17:02:14Z")
> [@Flash](#):
>
> I’m all for difficulty but I was a bit disappointed when I found out that rubber gloves don’t protect you from getting shocked when melee-hitting shocker zombies (unarmed in this case). Would it trivialize this type of enemy too much if rubber equibment (boots, gloves) would somewhat help against the paralyzing shocks?
…You mean they don’t?
WELL then.
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### Author:  [@infectedmochi](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/infectedmochi)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2014, 5:45pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/39 "2014-10-12T17:45:50Z")
> [@Flash](#):
>
> I’m all for difficulty but I was a bit disappointed when I found out that rubber gloves don’t protect you from getting shocked when melee-hitting shocker zombies (unarmed in this case). Would it trivialize this type of enemy too much if rubber equibment (boots, gloves) would somewhat help against the paralyzing shocks?
+1 to this.
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### Author:  [@Wanderer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Wanderer)
#### Post date: [October 12, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/shocker-brutes-are-too-strong/7388/40 "2014-10-12T18:37:22Z")
[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:19, topic:7388”]I though about the idea of brute/hulk expansions for a while and the only ones I see really benefiting from it would be boomer hulk (would need a big bile buff - able to partially blind masked players?), bloated hulks (big explosion could throw player around, wreck buildings), bio-op brute/hulk (just plain terrifying), shrieker hulks (so loud you go deaf) and maybe spitter brutes/hulks (sounds more like a giant annoyance than danger, though).
A great deal of zombies don’t have anything that would make them worth hulking. Necros, smokers, masters, decayed, crawling, grabbers, cops, soldiers, technicians, survivors, skeletons - brute/hulk versions of those would be pure bloat. Not sure about dog hulks.
And children hulks (and scientist brutes) only sound like a good joke enemy to see while hallucinating.[/quote]
Hm… about that hulked versions…
Spitter Brute/Hulk - Concentrated acid(Slowly corrodes structures/concrete)/Acid mist(active when fighting, close things suffer acid damage). When dead, can be butchered for acid sacks that can be used as mini acid bombs or at least, a good recipient to carry that acid.
Necro Brute/Hulk - Necromancers bring zombies back, necro brutes/hulks wouldn’t be that strong, but the zombies brought back would have more HP than usual. Small chances of the “necro fastball”: specifically targets dead bodies to be ressurrected AND THEN THROWN. When dead, can be butchered for… nothing. You just killed a huge monster that’s bringing his friends back against you, that’s enough of a reward.
Smoker Brute/Hulk - the smoke radius is bigger and it lasts longer(perhaps muffling sound as well?). It wouldn’ be something you would want to face: his hits make noise, so the other zombies would be alerted by it. But it would be something you would exploit, specially if it spawns in a place with something valuable. When dead, can be butchered for sacs with some substance tht creates smoke.
Decayed - Chances of hurting itself while attacking(“The Decayed Brute tries to hit you, but it’s arm snaps!”), significantly weaker than common brutes/hulks.
Grabber - Slow, resistant, chances of shrugging damage through arm blocking, grab do damage/turn and it’s tougher to get out, Judo users have an easier time against them. Won’t smash/throw.
Master - Instead of upgrading zombies to new versions, would be more of a commander: avoiding being too close of enemies and giving buffs to other zombies while it’s alive. It would be an active effect, warned before used and only one type of buff can be used. More damage, more defense, more speed… would also do tactical throw, throwing against the player zombies that would be problem. When dead, can be butchered for something that causes mutations.
Also, Brutes are big, Hulks are HUGE. A dead brute could be a tile, a hulk could be some sort of wall when dead?
Finally, +1 to electric-resistanct rubber equipment.
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