# Remove the debuff for killing zombie children!

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [December 13, 2018, 12:44am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885 "2018-12-13T00:44:47Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 12:44am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/1 "2018-12-13T00:44:47Z")

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Due to complaints from misunderstandings I have removed what was originally posted right here. Perspective is powerful, and evidently most people don’t understand/believe what I say. Sadly, text tends to be read the wrong way a lot.  
Merry Christmas every one.

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**Author:** ![Ricky\_Van](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/ricky_van/32/4666_2.png) [@Ricky\_Van](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Ricky_Van)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/2 "2018-12-13T00:46:25Z")

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Psycopath traits should work good there…

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**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 12:46am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/3 "2018-12-13T00:46:43Z")

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_Poll ([view on site](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/3))_

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**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 12:48am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/4 "2018-12-13T00:48:16Z")

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Ya, but I believe that effects other things that _would_ make sense to get upset about, and that costs points as well.

EDIT: And it seems kinda stupid to need to use freeform to do that.

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**Author:** ![Ricky\_Van](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/ricky_van/32/4666_2.png) [@Ricky\_Van](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Ricky_Van)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 12:52am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/5 "2018-12-13T00:52:43Z")

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hmm…that makes sense, but freeform point is available too…

as for the vote, i do agree to get moral bonus for killing zombie children but for balancing purpose it should be added as trait named “mercy killing”

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**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 12:54am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/6 "2018-12-13T00:54:02Z")

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The ‘mercy killing’ trait does make some sense. But either it should be really cheap or effect more than just zombie children. You could possibly make it rather expensive but affect killing _any_ zombie.

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**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 12:57am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/7 "2018-12-13T00:57:45Z")

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Let me also quote the exact description of the psychopath trait (I have it open in another screen):  
_“You don’t experience guilt like others do. Even when you know your actions are wrong, you just don’t care.”_

Yet, this _thing_ wanted to kill you. Not only are you putting an abomination to reset, you are _defending_ yourself. Chances are, zombie children don’t entirely even look like children anymore. At least with some of them anyway. Would _you_ really feel bad about killing a _zombie_ that wanted to _eat you alive_?

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**Author:** ![Ricky\_Van](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/ricky_van/32/4666_2.png) [@Ricky\_Van](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Ricky_Van)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 1:01am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/8 "2018-12-13T01:01:45Z")

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for survival and sakes of my life, no…

i learn from some zombie survival game that if you kill undeads, whether they’re children or old ma, it is inevitable and it is the best way to make them rest in peace.

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**Author:** ![Wayticus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/90db22/32.png) [@Wayticus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Wayticus)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 1:03am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/9 "2018-12-13T01:03:22Z")

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The zombie kids I’m okay with, the description isn’t anything like with you listed, that fits more with some of the others that do not give guilt.

Now the kinderlings, if that thing can live through a burning building falling on it’s head it definitely isn’t a human child anymore, walking around with no face and all, and since some of the children zombies who do not give guilt turn into kinderlings, that then give guilt doesn’t make sense.

Also the waifs, fungal, and snot gobblers, from their description don’t make sense to give guilt.

All of that is easily fixed with a mod though, thanks for reminding me about them, going to make and add to my game before I play next.

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**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 1:03am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/10 "2018-12-13T01:03:37Z")

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Exactly. I don’t really see how this could even be good for game-balancing reasons since it is so specific and strange.

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**Author:** ![Ricky\_Van](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/ricky_van/32/4666_2.png) [@Ricky\_Van](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Ricky_Van)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 1:07am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/11 "2018-12-13T01:07:19Z")

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yeah, it is strange to feel guilt killing undeads (unless you are some sort of… lover) but it is something that adds challenge to my gameplay.

but then everyone has its own choice like you. so i believe there should be way to remove it.

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**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 1:08am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/12 "2018-12-13T01:08:44Z")

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If you want challenge, increase spawn rates, monster resilience and speed, use hardcore mods etc. There’s no reason to have this.

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**Author:** ![Ricky\_Van](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/ricky_van/32/4666_2.png) [@Ricky\_Van](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Ricky_Van)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 1:10am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/13 "2018-12-13T01:10:04Z")

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no i mean, it gives me challenge to not hit specific zombies and be careful when hitting them on close-quarter… spitters, children undeads, and others.

i do love increasing spawn rate of zombies.

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**Author:** ![AlmostHuman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/839c29/32.png) [@AlmostHuman](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/AlmostHuman)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/14 "2018-12-13T01:14:49Z")

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Even if I knew the thing before me is an undead abomination I would still feel horrible about killing it if it looks identical to any other child. (I’d still do it tho) So for some child zombies I think it should stay. Also, your poll choices suck.

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**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 1:17am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/15 "2018-12-13T01:17:34Z")

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Well, I am sad that you think that. I don’t know how editing polls would work to relabel them. I guess maybe I was a tad to biased at the time. But I was also kinda in the moment too. I’m man enough to admit that I should have made it in a more neutral way.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 1:20am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/16 "2018-12-13T01:20:33Z")

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Please don’t post biased polls.  
In fact, don’t post polls about game features if you have an axe to grind.

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**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 1:20am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/17 "2018-12-13T01:20:42Z")

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For some reason it says I can’t change it after the first 5 minutes despite it being over half an hour since I made it. Weird.  
Hey Kevin, can, ya fix this?

I’m not doing it simply because I’m biased, it simply doesn’t make any sense to me, and doesn’t seem like a realistic game function.  
I wouldn’t necessarily call it as an axe to grind, sure, I find it a stupid and all, but I’m not actually _that_ mad about it. I’m just phrasing it how I feel it should be phrased.  
I _love_ children and babies, but these aren’t children any more.

I’ll try and keep that in check in the future. I can be stubborn, but I love to learn and better myself for the future.

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**Author:** ![TheMurderUnicorn](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/themurderunicorn/32/5706_2.png) [@TheMurderUnicorn](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheMurderUnicorn)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 1:25am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/18 "2018-12-13T01:25:06Z")

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o\_o I don’t like the debuff on killing zombie children. It’s my opinion that all children should be poked with pipe spears, regardless of their current level of zombification.

That said, I think that it’s a perfectly reasonable debuff that’s minor enough that it’s almost never an issue (unless you’re clearing out a school).

So, those things put together means I think it’s fine the way it is.

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**Author:** ![Krisu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/krisu/32/11683_2.png) [@Krisu](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Krisu)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 1:26am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/19 "2018-12-13T01:26:53Z")

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It should give a huge morale debuff the first 1-5 you kill, then gradually start decreasing. At 20+ killed, you still can feel guilt but not always(chance based). At 50+, you have accepted the fact that you must kill them in order to survive. Also at very low morale you might refuse to attack them.

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**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2018, 1:27am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885/20 "2018-12-13T01:27:01Z")

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AGH! It’s been more than 5 minutes! Lemme make the poll phrasing less biased! Kevin, would you personally be able to change it to be so?

[Next page](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/remove-the-debuff-for-killing-zombie-children/17885.md?page=2)