Remove duct tape from screwdriver recipe

[Charlesilv4]

Is not even that hard to make a screwdriver, just need a metal bar that is thin enough, hammer it, file it (wich can be done on a rock) and there you go, Iam talking from experience here as I once needed to remove tiny screws and didnt have a screwdriver.

Theres nothing stopping you from making a log cabin.

The game is one of choices. You chose not to take a profession that started with a tool you wanted, you chose to not put points into construction, you chose to not use your points for utility, instead putting them into so fargone profession or scenario.

the game is not unbalanced because your every whim isnt accounted for. This change, however small, would upset the balance of the game for the worse.

Yeah and iam choosing to make this recipe less bullshit, and the same could go for you, dont want to make a screwdriver thats fine just dont go telling people what they can and cant do with such moronic arguments.

Therein lies your problem.

You dont find them interesting. Because youd rather spend your points elsewhere.

I spend my points where i want, wich doesnt even have nothing to do with the screwdriver recipe.

youve taken to claiming that youve debunked whatever assertions Ive made, despite having made none at all. Youre simply bantering. and refusing to take good advice from one of the most active modders atm. Best believe I mod out things I have an issue with.

The reason we dont hand out scredrivers and hacksaws, why they dont spawn in every single garage and household (bercause ohhh, boi, are tools common as sin) is that they give the player an objective. You want to remove that objective.

Yeah you can be a active modder, but thats doesnt put much weight on your arguments.
Having the ability to make a screwdriver inst in any sort of way giving anybody a objective, those that dont want to make one will still scavenge the tools they need, wich in turn gives the person that dont want to scavenge more control over what they can do.

And please do enlighten us about how having a screwdriver will “unbalace” the game…you are saying that like we are asking to make screwdriver sets more easy to find.

[proxiehunter]

[quote=“Charlesilv4, post:17, topic:13013”]Is not even that hard to make a screwdriver, just need a metal bar that is thin enough, hammer it, file it (wich can be done on a rock) and there you go, Iam talking from experience here as I once needed to remove tiny screws and didnt have a screwdriver.

Theres nothing stopping you from making a log cabin.

The game is one of choices. You chose not to take a profession that started with a tool you wanted, you chose to not put points into construction, you chose to not use your points for utility, instead putting them into so fargone profession or scenario.

the game is not unbalanced because your every whim isnt accounted for. This change, however small, would upset the balance of the game for the worse.

Yeah and iam choosing to make this recipe less bullshit, and the same could go for you, dont want to make a screwdriver thats fine just dont go telling people what they can and cant do with such moronic arguments.

Therein lies your problem.

You dont find them interesting. Because youd rather spend your points elsewhere.

I spend my points where i want, wich doesnt even have nothing to do with the screwdriver recipe.

youve taken to claiming that youve debunked whatever assertions Ive made, despite having made none at all. Youre simply bantering. and refusing to take good advice from one of the most active modders atm. Best believe I mod out things I have an issue with.

The reason we dont hand out scredrivers and hacksaws, why they dont spawn in every single garage and household (bercause ohhh, boi, are tools common as sin) is that they give the player an objective. You want to remove that objective.

Yeah you can be a active modder, but thats doesnt put much weight on your arguments.
Having the ability to make a screwdriver inst in any sort of way giving anybody a objective, those that dont want to make one will still scavenge the tools they need, wich in turn gives the person that dont want to scavenge more control over what they can do.

And please do enlighten us about how having a screwdriver will “unbalace” the game…you are saying that like we are asking to make screwdriver sets more easy to find.[/quote]

Honestly the easiest thing to do might be to make an “easy screwdriver” mod. If I knew how to make a mod recipe override a recipe from the core game I’d whip it up myself, that’s pretty much the only part I’m unsure of.

[Charlesilv4]

If I wasnt knee deep in work I would look it up. What I realy wanted was to hear more people opinions on the question, wich from what i can see is a welcome change to the recipe.

[IcedPee]

On a gameplay note:
In nearly every other recipe that requires duct tape for use as a grip, strings, thread, or rags are allowed as acceptable substitutes instead. I’m not sure what it is about the screwdriver that specifically necessitates duct tape, but it’s a pretty jarring example of internal inconsistency in early-game crafting recipes. If for no other reason, the recipe should probably be changed just because of this.

[Alec_White]

[quote=“IcedPee, post:20, topic:13013”]On a gameplay note:
In nearly every other recipe that requires duct tape for use as a grip, strings, thread, or rags are allowed as acceptable substitutes instead. I’m not sure what it is about the screwdriver that specifically necessitates duct tape, but it’s a pretty jarring example of internal inconsistency in early-game crafting recipes. If for no other reason, the recipe should probably be changed just because of this.[/quote]

More reasons to chalk it up as an consistency problem.

[proxiehunter]

Made a mod to create a slightly bulkier “survivor screwdriver” using the same materials for a handle as a makeshift knife. Otherwise works the same as a regular screwdriver. You can find it in the mods subforum. Tested and working on my machine, let me know if there are any problems.

[kevin.granade]

One note, for a screwdriver in particular, tape is the “easy mode” way to make a handle, making a handle that supports application of torque with cloth and string is pretty tricky, perhaps requiring an extra point if the relevant skill.

[Charlesilv4]

One note, for a screwdriver in particular, tape is the "easy mode" way to make a handle, making a handle that supports application of torque with cloth and string is pretty tricky, perhaps requiring an extra point if the relevant skill.

Yeah i can see that working, but what skill should affect it ?

[Wally-kun]

Plastic, duct tape/glue, chunk of steel.

Done.

[Aabbcc]

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:23, topic:13013”]One note, for a screwdriver in particular, tape is the “easy mode” way to make a handle, making a handle that supports application of torque with cloth and string is pretty tricky, perhaps requiring an extra point if the relevant skill.[/quote]Wouldn’t duct tape suffer from the exact same problem as cloth?

You’d have more luck bending the handle, making a T screwdriver as it were, you can add a handle to that so it’s kinder on your hand or if your base material has potential sharp edges you want to avoid, but torque is no longer a concern. The result is actually a bit more rugged than using a plastic/wood handle on a straight screwdriver.

Still, making the head right requires a bit more work than making, say, a makeshift hammer or shovel, not sure if that should be crafting time or fabrication skill requirement tho.

[wad67]

It’s not really about the spawn rates for tools, or how that effects gameplay and construction.

It’s about the fact that the screwdriver recipe takes duct tape, which is not hard to find.
However this recipe does not fit the typical scheme of improvised stuff, and spits out a standard tool.
Just a bit of an odd one out, in terms of player made tools.

[TheWumpus]

A (possibly) better solution to the issue might involve increasing the complexity level of tools. For instance, I have no less than 12 different screwdrivers in my tool box at work. Flatheads, fine flatheads, large flatheads, fine, large, and square center phillips, and torx. I also have a bit driver kit with about 40 different options to choose from for my electric tools.

Creating a makeshift screwdriver, say one capable of disassembling basic furniture with nothing but the simplest of screws without nuts or any serious torque applied to them, should probably not require much in the way of complex materials. Heck, I could probably go cobble one together out of junk in my garage in about 15 minutes. Would it be very good? Of course not.

Creating a screwdriver actually useful for crafting? That’d be a bit trickier.

So why not have a third level of screw driving quality. Simply increase crafting requirements by one level, leave construction at level one, and have the following:

Makeshift screwdriver: Screw driving quality one. Requires scrap metal (1) AND rag (2) OR short string (2) OR long string (1) AND Tool with Hammering quality 1

Screwdriver: Quality two. Keep recipe the same

Screwdriver set: Quality three

That should help prevent breaking intended balance and still allow for early game deconstruction.

[StopSignal]

Guys I got a real question here, what balance does a screwdriver break? Early game you will mostly break stuff to get components and in late game when it becomes really useful you already have it most of the time.

Knife screwdriving quality 1? I don’t know if it has it, or if there is even an screwdriving ability, but just throwing it there. Sadly I don’t know much about this, never really used the screwdriver much in the game.

And for the most basic things, in real life, I usually just use a knife instead of an screwdriver. For basic things, as I said.

[Alec_White]

Guys I got a real question here, what balance does a screwdriver break?

Negligible balance that comes down to personal opinion of whoever accepts PRs.

[DeclanFrost]

[quote=“StopSignal, post:29, topic:13013”]Guys I got a real question here, what balance does a screwdriver break? Early game you will mostly break stuff to get components and in late game when it becomes really useful you already have it most of the time.

Knife screwdriving quality 1? I don’t know if it has it, or if there is even an screwdriving ability, but just throwing it there. Sadly I don’t know much about this, never really used the screwdriver much in the game.

And for the most basic things, in real life, I usually just use a knife instead of an screwdriver. For basic things, as I said.[/quote]
Hell, coins would work. Or any metallic object with a flat edge.

[Lesseps]

Omg, I can’t believe all that hype about screwdriver. As if the game had no other problems to mend.

I don’t support any changes to recipe or quality of screwdriving. I had numerous cases when starting in the middle of a city I had working vehicle around and couldn’t use it because there was nothing to hotwire it with. That is a good example where intended balance will be broken just because you can use your coin, nail whatever to unscrew couple of freaking loose screws in real life. Fingernails anyone?

Recipe is fine. Go whack zombie heads in and hope for a screwdriver. Don’t want to whack zombie heads? Don’t want to? I’ve got some bad news for ya… This is Cata and you’re dead.

Hell, if we change it here, edit it there, tomorrow someone will start complaining about makeshift welder is not realistic or floodlight recipe is trash. Why don’t we let development team do major stuff first, this is not even a bug, I cannot finish half of quests in the game or change armor on my NPCs. Screw your screwing screwdriver, man!!

[Charlesilv4]

Omg, I can't believe all that hype about screwdriver. As if the game had no other problems to mend.

I don’t support any changes to recipe or quality of screwdriving. I had numerous cases when starting in the middle of a city I had working vehicle around and couldn’t use it because there was nothing to hotwire it with. That is a good example where intended balance will be broken just because you can use your coin, nail whatever to unscrew couple of freaking loose screws in real life. Fingernails anyone?

Yeah because changing a few lines in the game code is so hard…
I dont see why you are so against it, nobody is losing nothing, the game will still be the same but we will be able to make a screwdriver that dont use duct tape. Again with this fu****g balance bullshit, cant you guys scream something else!.

Recipe is fine. Go whack zombie heads in and hope for a screwdriver. Don't want to whack zombie heads? Don't want to? I've got some bad news for ya... This is Cata and you're dead.

You don’t want a screwdriver that doesn’t use duct tape ? Dont want ?
Well too bad for you.

Hell, if we change it here, edit it there, tomorrow someone will start complaining about makeshift welder is not realistic or floodlight recipe is trash. Why don't we let development team do major stuff first, this is not even a bug, I cannot finish half of quests in the game or change armor on my NPCs.

Nobody is stoping the devs from working on the game, did you saw a slowdown on their work since i posted this thread ?.

Screw your screwing screwdriver, man!!

U mad bro ?

[proxiehunter]

Points up thread to where I made a mod so we can have a screwdriver without duct tape. People who want an easy to make screwdriver can use the mod, people who think it destroys balance for mysterious unexplained reasons can choose to not use the mod. So why are we still fighting over duct tape screwdrivers?

[Lesseps]

Yes, Why, Carl?? Why??

Mod is fine. Thanks, bro! I don’t want screwdrivers craftable from rags in my game. I have enough stuff which is already craftable form rags.

[DeclanFrost]

Somebody lock this thread.