# Regarding the removal of the reviving zombies option

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974>\
**Category:** The Bunker\
**Created:** [September 9, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974 "2013-09-09T15:04:45Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 14\
**Page:** 4

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![i2amroy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/i2amroy/32/909_2.png) [@i2amroy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/i2amroy)\
**Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 9:46pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/61 "2013-09-11T21:46:39Z")

</div>

The replacing of the revive zombies option with a monster flag is an upgrade. It means that you will still have the same amount of control over zombie spawns that you had with the option, and then you will have even more control. I’m not sure why anyone would not support the removal when it’s being replaced with something that performs the exact same functions better.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 9:54pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/62 "2013-09-11T21:54:59Z")

</div>

[quote=“kilozombie, post:60, topic:2974”]Lazy’s actually got a point on the second part:

> [@SunshineTurtle](#):
>
> it’s an average, not any kind of absolute value. It means that on average that’s the ratio you will get. Unless you are unreasonable enough to expect next 50 people will be much different on average) than first 50.[/quote]

No, he doesn’t. Making a “poll” into a statistically valid sample requires very careful controls to prevent bias. In this case the sample is tiny, self-selecting, and more strongly self-selecting for people with a particular agenda.

All you can say (maybe) is that 32 people say they want an option, or at least did when they answered as such. There isn’t sufficient rigor here to project that result across the entire forum population, or even a significant subset of it. For one thing the number of people who viewed the poll dwarfs the number who answered at all, indicating that the vast majority is actually “don’t care enough to answer”. This is a problem systemic to forum polls, if the participants of a poll self-select, and even more so if they have a string stake in the outcome, it throws all statistical applicability right out the window.

Specifically regarding, “expect next 50 people will be much different on average”, actually I do expect that the next 50 people would answer differently, because the only people with a strong incentive to answer are in the “yes” group, and that group is tapped out, whereas the “don’t care” group is huge and underrepresented in the poll.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![i2amroy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/i2amroy/32/909_2.png) [@i2amroy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/i2amroy)\
**Post date:** [September 11, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/63 "2013-09-11T22:03:56Z")

</div>

> [@SunshineTurtle](#):
>
> What is better? You don’t need any more control, it would be nothing but redundancy and bloat.

More customizability is 99.9% of the time a good thing (in fact it’s one of the main things people were arguing with against with the removal of the zombie revival option). I can’t think of a single time I’ve heard a complaint from someone because they were able to customize the game to match what they wanted it to be, while I’ve heard thousands of complaints when people can’t.

> [@SunshineTurtle](#):
>
> You already have revival flag, in a way. Revival only makes sense for zombies, that 's what “zombie” means. So when you want to define a monster to have a potential for revival you simply define its type as “zombie”, it doesn’t need any other flag. And then if you want to make zombie type monsters revive or not you simply set only a single flag that applies to all zombie monsters instead of adding or deleting 50 individual flags.

Except that setting it as a “zombie” also defines it to have several other things that apply to zombies as a whole (an example is some basic fear/aggression triggers). What if I want to mod in a creature that revives after a short period of time but doesn’t follow those same triggers as zombies? (An example off the top of my head would be an earth elemental that revives itself over time). Forcing a player to use an inferior system when you can just as easily use a much more flexible one is nothing but silliness and an illogical clinging to “the old way”.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Cockatrice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Cockatrice](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Cockatrice)\
**Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 10:40am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/64 "2013-09-12T10:40:23Z")

</div>

Zombie corpses don’t revive, infected human corpses do. Instead of reviving zombies maybe it would be better to spawn more human corpses laying around that could rise up at random times. Morale penalty should prevent people from going around butchering those corpses. The idea is to provide additional challenge and element of surprise, but likely it wouldn’t work as people would butcher those corpses regardless of morale penalty which would turn the feature into useless, repetitive and tedious task, as is butchering zombie corpses now.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/cataclysmdda/original/1X/21b5d044e8473b25d0bf905d60477e25f6fbe0cf.png) [@system](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 12:54pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/65 "2013-09-12T12:54:33Z")

</div>

> [@Cockatrice](#):
>
> Zombie corpses don’t revive, infected human corpses do. Instead of reviving zombies maybe it would be better to spawn more human corpses laying around that could rise up at random times. Morale penalty should prevent people from going around butchering those corpses. The idea is to provide additional challenge and element of surprise, but likely it wouldn’t work as people would butcher those corpses regardless of morale penalty which would turn the feature into useless, repetitive and tedious task, as is butchering zombie corpses now.

Very good idea, I support that.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Cockatrice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Cockatrice](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Cockatrice)\
**Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 1:31pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/66 "2013-09-12T13:31:29Z")

</div>

> [@Rookie](#):
>
> [quote=“Cockatrice, post:64, topic:2974”]Zombie corpses don’t revive, infected human corpses do. Instead of reviving zombies maybe it would be better to spawn more human corpses laying around that could rise up at random times. Morale penalty should prevent people from going around butchering those corpses. The idea is to provide additional challenge and element of surprise, but likely it wouldn’t work as people would butcher those corpses regardless of morale penalty which would turn the feature into useless, repetitive and tedious task, as is butchering zombie corpses now.

Very good idea, I support that.[/quote]

But my conclusion was that it’s not actually a good idea. Sounds interesting in theory, but in practice would fail to deliver that element of surprise as long as people can actually butcher those corpses, because they would, and that would be repetitive and boring. To maybe fix that I guess infected human corpses could still be able to rise even if you butcher them, but as skeletons, or ghosts/goo in case you scatter or pick up the bones/meet.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![kilozombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e274bd/32.png) [@kilozombie](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kilozombie)\
**Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:02pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/67 "2013-09-12T15:02:00Z")

</div>

There isn’t actually any difference between “infected” and “zombies”, IIRC. Everyone’s got the

goo. Everyone who dies (and has drunk water from the main grid) is gonna turn into a zombie, and the goo will reform their corpses unless completely destroyed.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![GlyphGryph](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/glyphgryph/32/847_2.png) [@GlyphGryph](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GlyphGryph)\
**Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 3:18pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/68 "2013-09-12T15:18:15Z")

</div>

Since the last poll was kind of absurdly biased and I feel like farting around, I made a new poll! Whoo!

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Jack\_Slinger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/85e7bf/32.png) [@Jack\_Slinger](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Jack_Slinger)\
**Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 4:00pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/69 "2013-09-12T16:00:18Z")

</div>

The way I saw the pulping mechanic was as a way to make it more difficult for you to simply clear huge areas of city making them completely harmless. So for example killing and disposing all the zombies in a small area and then building a base there is easily possible but clearing an entire gigantic city will take far more work to make safe.

Just the way I thought it was supposed to work and haven’t seen it mentioned so far. Also in my opinion reviving monsters should be moved from an option to the monster file as was suggested as this should allow greater scope for modding.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Cockatrice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Cockatrice](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Cockatrice)\
**Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 4:28pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/70 "2013-09-12T16:28:25Z")

</div>

[quote=“Jack Slinger, post:69, topic:2974”]The way I saw the pulping mechanic was as a way to make it more difficult for you to simply clear huge areas of city making them completely harmless. So for example killing and disposing all the zombies in a small area and then building a base there is easily possible but clearing an entire gigantic city will take far more work to make safe.

Just the way I thought it was supposed to work and haven’t seen it mentioned so far. Also in my opinion reviving monsters should be moved from an option to the monster file as was suggested as this should allow greater scope for modding.[/quote]

It doesn’t increase difficulty, just tediousness. Reviving monsters should be removed, majority of people clearly don’t want it, and the rest probably don’t know how to play the game so they have no idea how repetitive and boring can butchering hundreds of corpses be.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 4:43pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/71 "2013-09-12T16:43:59Z")

</div>

Feel free to stop updating at the point before the option was removed and wait until moddable monsters land to update. Choices, you have them.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![youtoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/779978/32.png) [@youtoo](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/youtoo)\
**Post date:** [September 12, 2013, 6:39pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/72 "2013-09-12T18:39:24Z")

</div>

@John Candlebury: as ALREADY POSTED! The kickstarter programmer dude is adding a mod manager. To make modding the game easier. One of us will make a mod to make this an option.

I would think this ends the discussion. This is the beauty of the mod manager. Ill be turning it off when I go to 50x zombies myself. However, I can wait for a bit for the mod manager.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Morrigi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5e9695/32.png) [@Morrigi](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Morrigi)\
**Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 10:44am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/73 "2013-09-13T10:44:23Z")

</div>

May I ask why we can’t just shoot the bodies to make sure the zombies stay down? Even a 9mm pistol is going to do a lot more traumatic damage a lot faster than a blade will, especially at point-blank against a stationary target.

If a zombie can be finished off by 2-3 hits from a crowbar, why not a gun?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![John\_Candlebury](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/john_candlebury/32/6437_2.png) [@John\_Candlebury](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/John_Candlebury)\
**Post date:** [September 13, 2013, 11:43am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/74 "2013-09-13T11:43:52Z")

</div>

[quote=“youtoo, post:72, topic:2974”]@John Candlebury: as ALREADY POSTED! The kickstarter programmer dude is adding a mod manager. To make modding the game easier. One of us will make a mod to make this an option.

I would think this ends the discussion. This is the beauty of the mod manager. Ill be turning it off when I go to 50x zombies myself. However, I can wait for a bit for the mod manager.[/quote]

I dont understand why you told me this, i actually made this thread before that was proposed and I am 100% in favor of the change

Also, I believe it will be better to continue any discussion in the new thread so i’ll lock this

[Previous page](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974.md?page=3)