# Regarding the removal of the reviving zombies option

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974>\
**Category:** The Bunker\
**Created:** [September 9, 2013, 3:04pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974 "2013-09-09T15:04:45Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 8:15pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/21 "2013-09-09T20:15:06Z")

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[quote=“kilozombie, post:19, topic:2974”]Please answer me this, Kevin:

Why is the debug menu still in the game?[/quote]  
For… debugging? WTF man, you aren’t even making sense.

The debug menu isn’t mapped to a key by default to make it clear that this is NOT a regular part of the game.  
Toggling individual monster abilities is also NOT a regular part of gameplay, but if you want to tweak the monster definitions or even replace the monsters entirely, that’s what modding is for.

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**Author:** ![kilozombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e274bd/32.png) [@kilozombie](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kilozombie)\
**Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 9:40pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/22 "2013-09-09T21:40:27Z")

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Alright, that’s a valid answer, and correct.

But a few options (reviving not included, btw) could be used for debugging as well- city options could be used to quickly gen skyscrapers or test buildings, zombie spawns could be used to find super-rare spawns, etc.

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**Author:** ![GlyphGryph](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/glyphgryph/32/847_2.png) [@GlyphGryph](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GlyphGryph)\
**Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 9:53pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/23 "2013-09-09T21:53:18Z")

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The option will be removed because it doesn’t make any sense from a development point of view and actively hinders improvements to the game. It adds significant technical debt moving forward, and the need it expresses is completely obsoleted by the new significantly more powerful and versatile system where you can simply plug and play a new set of monster rules to completely rework which monsters revive and which don’t.

The option was never removed from a practical point of view, it was only removed as a nonsensical UI choice that made developing more difficult. Instead, it was simply improved.

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**Author:** ![i2amroy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/i2amroy/32/909_2.png) [@i2amroy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/i2amroy)\
**Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 10:03pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/24 "2013-09-09T22:03:35Z")

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> [@Kevin Granade](#):
>
> Will be moving the thing that triggers revival to a flag in the monster definition instead of it just being applied to all zombies, you can then feel free to redefine it out of your zombies, or add it to bees if that’s what you really want. I can’t guarantee this will happen by the time we do the next release though.

This right here, the reviving zombies thing should be something that is tied to a flag, not an option. I’ll take a crack at it myself later if nobody else will.

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**Author:** ![pulsefrequency](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@pulsefrequency](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/pulsefrequency)\
**Post date:** [September 9, 2013, 10:33pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/25 "2013-09-09T22:33:28Z")

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ill never complain about dev choices because, having dabbled in programming myself, i cant even comprehend the amount of work it takes to organize stuff like this (although i would love to) and it is not until you try it yourself that you come to fully appreciate the scale of independent projects like this. catadda is going in such an awesome direction, and any development at all is better than that dry period we all had to suffer through after whales went MIA. im fully behind you guys no matter what and i love the state of the community right now. having said that, you guys gotta understand that people are gonna bring you down no matter what. some people are just out to give others a hard time. cough cough. so im just gonna leave this here

 ![](http://static.fjcdn.com/pictures/Yeah+well+at+least+I+can+grow+a+beard_367302_4776973.jpg)

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**Author:** ![Necrucifer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/necrucifer/32/44_2.png) [@Necrucifer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Necrucifer)\
**Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 12:35am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/26 "2013-09-10T00:35:14Z")

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Sure butchering zombies, beating them to a pulp or piling there corpses and burning them can be annoying but butchering does not take that long and is pretty quick. It only takes a couple seconds to butcher a pile of 10 zombies or so on as long as there all on the same tile.

I mean most people are going to check to see if the zombie had anything worthwhile on them anyway so they could just butcher the corpses then. I played with zombie revival on anyway so this does not bug me and honestly if this keeps some people from playing, then that is disappointing.

It literally just takes under a second to butcher (unless you input slow then I apologize lol.), that’s not bad. You kill 50 zombies and go to check their corpses then just butcher them while doing so, the total amount of time spent butchering all 50 corpses will be less than a minute’s worth. Not sure how something that takes a bit less than one second to do each time can be found annoying when it takes so little time. I however do understand that some of you would rather have it off than having to mess with butchering anyway since it gets repetitive even if it takes just a second but some of you must be very impatient lol…to each their own though, just my input anyway.

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**Author:** ![ramesesniblet](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/ce73a5/32.png) [@ramesesniblet](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/ramesesniblet)\
**Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 1:49am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/27 "2013-09-10T01:49:31Z")

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Personally I find it odd that they come back, things should be dead when I kill them. If I’ve already beat it to fuck and back to kill it, why do I need to do it again to make sure it doesn’t come back? I like the old school destroy the brain approach though, it’d be OK if there was a small chance of them coming back in case you didn’t mash their bonce enough. I welcome a streamlining and modability of it though. I would like it if you could walk over their corpse and get a “Stamp on the dead zombie’s head Y/N?” or something like that.

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**Author:** ![GlyphGryph](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/glyphgryph/32/847_2.png) [@GlyphGryph](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GlyphGryph)\
**Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:06am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/28 "2013-09-10T02:06:44Z")

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You can just hit “s” and then the direction of the corpse to smash/pulp it.

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**Author:** ![Weyrling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/7bcc69/32.png) [@Weyrling](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Weyrling)\
**Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 2:09am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/29 "2013-09-10T02:09:41Z")

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> [@Necrucifer](#):
>
> Not sure how something that takes a bit less than one second to do each time can be found annoying when it takes so little time.

If it takes half a second to butcher a single zombie, then my longest lived character would have spent nearly an hour and a half of MY time doing nothing but ‘cleaning up’ zombie corpses  
He’s killed and butchered/pulped/burned/disintegrated almost 10,000 zombies in his lifespan, this is not an insignificant length of time.

That said, after I got started I tended to molotov piles of zombies (Usually burning down the house I was using as a chokepoint), so I’ve probably spent less than half an hour of actual time doing corpse cleanup for that character.

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**Author:** ![pulsefrequency](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/97f17d/32.png) [@pulsefrequency](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/pulsefrequency)\
**Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/30 "2013-09-10T04:52:09Z")

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> [@Necrucifer](#):
>
> I however do understand that some of you would rather have it off than having to mess with butchering anyway since it gets repetitive even if it takes just a second but some of you must be very impatient lol…to each their own though, just my input anyway.

i think the biggest problem people have is that you didnt have to do it before. it is a major change to gameplay and difficulty, especially if some people arent as anally retentive as others in looting and pulping every single zombie corpse. i remember when revival was added i was just like… wat? and this is pretty much why:

> [@ramesesniblet](#):
>
> Personally I find it odd that they come back, things should be dead when I kill them. If I’ve already beat it to fuck and back to kill it, why do I need to do it again to make sure it doesn’t come back?

i will happily play the game either way, it just really changes the game. it adds a new layer of depth to combat, and as Prince Hamlet of Denmark said, “nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so.” i think it will be pretty badass once you get a char high enough to just pulp the zombies when you hit them most of the time anyway, whether it be by sniper rifle, explosive arrow or the coveted self defense style of OP-fu

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**Author:** ![Necrucifer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/necrucifer/32/44_2.png) [@Necrucifer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Necrucifer)\
**Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 10:15am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/31 "2013-09-10T10:15:42Z")

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> [@ramesesniblet](#):
>
> Personally I find it odd that they come back, things should be dead when I kill them. If I’ve already beat it to fuck and back to kill it, why do I need to do it again to make sure it doesn’t come back? I like the old school destroy the brain approach though, it’d be OK if there was a small chance of them coming back in case you didn’t mash their bonce enough. I welcome a streamlining and modability of it though. I would like it if you could walk over their corpse and get a “Stamp on the dead zombie’s head Y/N?” or something like that.

Yeah, I get what your saying for sure. If it was the shoot in the brain way then I can see if it was not a headshot or something of the sort then they could come back. Or maybe depending on where you struck during fighting them and how much.

Even if there was a small chance though of them coming back then I would probably still butcher, smash or burn them anyway since that small chance could randomly happen every turn though.

> [@pulsefrequency](#):
>
> [quote=“Necrucifer, post:26, topic:2974”]I however do understand that some of you would rather have it off than having to mess with butchering anyway since it gets repetitive even if it takes just a second but some of you must be very impatient lol…to each their own though, just my input anyway.

i think the biggest problem people have is that you didnt have to do it before. it is a major change to gameplay and difficulty, especially if some people arent as anally retentive as others in looting and pulping every single zombie corpse. i remember when revival was added i was just like… wat? and this is pretty much why:

> [@ramesesniblet](#):
>
> Personally I find it odd that they come back, things should be dead when I kill them. If I’ve already beat it to fuck and back to kill it, why do I need to do it again to make sure it doesn’t come back?

i will happily play the game either way, it just really changes the game. it adds a new layer of depth to combat, and as Prince Hamlet of Denmark said, “nothing is good or bad, but thinking makes it so.” i think it will be pretty badass once you get a char high enough to just pulp the zombies when you hit them most of the time anyway, whether it be by sniper rifle, explosive arrow or the coveted self defense style of OP-fu[/quote]

Yeah, I remember playing the whales version then found this was still being continued elsewhere and remember when it did not exist. Most people hate change normally so I can see why people would be upset though unfortunately, always going to happen one way or another just guess I did not think this would be a big deal when I heard it was going to be removed before it happened.

Yeah I used to smash them to a pulp then was like I could just butcher them, so much faster. Makes me wonder though if they will make the zombie’s corpses un-butcherable though or increase the time on it to do so or make it so you “have” to beat them to a pulp. Like you said I will play either way though, I kind of like the fact I have to pulverize there corpses or they get back up and if I miss a corpse by chance then to my mistakes I could regret missing it later haha. I’ve had it happen from a dogs corpse but I could not do much about it since it died on a vehicle spot so I could not butcher it so I ignored it to die later by it :(.

> [@Weyrling](#):
>
> [quote=“Necrucifer, post:26, topic:2974”]Not sure how something that takes a bit less than one second to do each time can be found annoying when it takes so little time.

If it takes half a second to butcher a single zombie, then my longest lived character would have spent nearly an hour and a half of MY time doing nothing but ‘cleaning up’ zombie corpses  
He’s killed and butchered/pulped/burned/disintegrated almost 10,000 zombies in his lifespan, this is not an insignificant length of time.

That said, after I got started I tended to molotov piles of zombies (Usually burning down the house I was using as a chokepoint), so I’ve probably spent less than half an hour of actual time doing corpse cleanup for that character.[/quote]

Yeah I normally just try to route zombies into one tile and burn them since it’s much faster for sure so I can agree. 10,000 zombies and an hour in a half of your time butchering them though is not that much time though unless it was all in one sitting but yeah it does add up. That’s just what I am saying though, it adds a new danger to the game and if you by chance miss one it could come back and bite you in the ass later though.

I guess everyone does not like it but that is fine though since I guess that little time could of been spent doing something else. Like you said it’s an insignificant amount of time for 10,000 zombies. In one day’s sittings worth of playing the game for a few hours to a full day it would still be considerably small in time comparison though to not be a big deal to me anyway.

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**Author:** ![moist\_zombie](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/moist_zombie/32/131_2.png) [@moist\_zombie](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/moist_zombie)\
**Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 7:43pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/32 "2013-09-10T19:43:04Z")

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At first I was on the “Hrm, don’t want to see an option go away!” side, but the whole “We don’t have have a mechanic like destroying the brain!” (plus all the “tougher time moving forward code-wise” stuff) changed my team 😛

And we cant just throw in headshots because a level 1 archer or firearms user can’t just reliably blast off headshots for every zombie they encounter…

In the end, people die when you blast them full of holes and just leave their bodies laying there, not zombies… If there is no viable solution for the old-timey “ONE IN THE HEAD AND THEY’RE DEAD!” action, then suddenly pulping/butchering/burning seems very reasonable (though, doesn’t butcher and pulp raise melee and survival skill versus no-gain burning?)

Anyway, since living skeletons exist I suppose the zombies would have to be bodily smashed to prevent reanimation

… And if you’re killing thousands of zombies I imagine that lots of clean-up is involved in any scenario, regardless of game mechanic… I guess my one complaint would have to be that when you’re on the run with 20+ rabid zombies behind you there really isn’t any sense in picking off a couple as you flee if you can’t double back and pulp/burn/butcher them… How long does reanimation take, generally?

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**Author:** ![John\_Candlebury](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/john_candlebury/32/6437_2.png) [@John\_Candlebury](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/John_Candlebury)\
**Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/33 "2013-09-10T19:45:18Z")

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Quoting the words of Kevin: “No less than 6 hours”

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**Author:** ![youtoo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/779978/32.png) [@youtoo](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/youtoo)\
**Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/34 "2013-09-10T20:26:32Z")

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> [@Kevin Granade](#):
>
> The reason I’m so resistant to disabling the revival thing is that this mechanic is completely central to our type of zombie. Romero and many other zombie types are “pierce the skull” type zombies, but in our interface, there doesn’t seem to be a way to make that happen. Instead, you can take zombies down with completely conventional methods, but they heal anf get back up unless you take extra steps to prevent it. Without this mechanic they aren’t zombies at all, they’re just reskinned goblins or something.

get this, but at 50x zombies, doing this much butchering is not fun. Not sure if this changed, but survival above 5 is meaningless. So no value in butchering. Until you get the more automated process added, can you add the option back in? It will let some of us make this less of a grind. I’d want some kind of macro option so I could macro the butchering if i had it on. Could be good for ‘super hardcore’ game due to the challenge.

you could also do…

1. more zombie necromancers so there is a ‘chance’ they come back. Can add an option for this.
2. I think zombie master can bring them back too. same concept.

Its insanely tedious at 50x zombies. I think 1x is what 1500 zombies in a normal size town? 50x would be 75,000. I don’t want to hit B 75,000 times per town.

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**Author:** ![Gatleos](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/gatleos/32/1008_2.png) [@Gatleos](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Gatleos)\
**Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 10:02pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/35 "2013-09-10T22:02:44Z")

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I really don’t mind revival in general, it’s just the GRIND of butchering everything that bothers me. At the very least I’d like to have butchering optimized (do we really need a Y/N prompt for this?) and improve the visibility of corpses. The annoying part for me is not being able to see which corpses I haven’t butchered.

Ideally there should be a separate symbol for corpses, it’s just awkward giving them the same symbol as food. They should also be placed on top of the stack so you can see them over the other items. That way you could clearly see which corpses needed butchering and quickly move between them without having to double-check.

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**Author:** ![i2amroy](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/i2amroy/32/909_2.png) [@i2amroy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/i2amroy)\
**Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 10:09pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/36 "2013-09-10T22:09:06Z")

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The goal is to tie reviving to a flag that is attached to certain monsters. You will then be able to mod it out if you want.

As for the “lore” related to this, zombies should be standing up on their own as the ooze repairs them. What zombie necromancers are actually doing is accelerating the ability of the ooze to repair the zombies.

Zombie masters, on the other hand, can’t bring back dead zombies, but they can accelerate the ooze’s adaptation process in order to “upgrade” zombies.

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**Author:** ![UberZacht](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/uberzacht/32/111_2.png) [@UberZacht](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/UberZacht)\
**Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 10:29pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/37 "2013-09-10T22:29:25Z")

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It’s an option that I never really toggled off, cause it’s a pretty good way to get early survival points, and now that rotten food eventually goes away (I think?), it’s really convenient. But I’ll throw in my two cents:

First and foremost, I completely agree with the concept of a symbol for corpses. If only a properly colored ‘Z’ or ‘F’ or what have you. Even a @ would work. Getting on to the removal of the reviving zombie option, I support its absence. It gives character to our zombies, makes them seem less like brainwashed humans with bad hygiene and more like monsters. However, it should probably be given some care, where a critical hit will actually pulp them outright. I think I’ve made shots with rifles that ended up doing that, but maybe not. Just so that a rag-tag shower victim with a stick has to put in more work to end them, but a skilled survivor, with say, a machete, can do it without thinking about it.

And regarding what 'Roy said, does that mean that the zombies will heal slowly over time?

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**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/cataclysmdda/original/1X/21b5d044e8473b25d0bf905d60477e25f6fbe0cf.png) [@system](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/38 "2013-09-10T22:44:45Z")

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Seems like I will be playing 0.7.1 forever.

Seriously? I am no melee fighter, so I would have to run up to every corpse and smash it? And what are traps for, then? In a gameplay perspective it would serve both sides, if the player could aim for the head or body. Head would of course have smaller hit chance than a shot/blow for the body. The more damage the Z has taken, the higher the hit head chance gets. A zombie would always retain 1HP unless the head is hit. This means you can weaken and finish them off at lower levels and directly headshot them at higher.

If this or a similar solution that involves fun/challenge is not possible just leave it to the player if he want’s to waste his time or not.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Gatleos](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/gatleos/32/1008_2.png) [@Gatleos](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Gatleos)\
**Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 10:50pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/39 "2013-09-10T22:50:55Z")

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I support the idea of critical hits occasionally blowing off a head and pulping. I would go as far as having an easy way to tell which unbutchered corpses were eligible for reanimation later on, maybe calling the corpse item “twitching zombie corpse” or even having a visual indicator like a different color for the corpse symbol. I just want it as streamlined as possible, but still dangerous to the player if they aren’t in the habit of double-tapping their kills.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![UberZacht](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/uberzacht/32/111_2.png) [@UberZacht](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/UberZacht)\
**Post date:** [September 10, 2013, 11:08pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/regarding-the-removal-of-the-reviving-zombies-option/2974/40 "2013-09-10T23:08:41Z")

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> [@Gatleos](#):
>
> I support the idea of critical hits occasionally blowing off a head and pulping. I would go as far as having an easy way to tell which unbutchered corpses were eligible for reanimation later on, maybe calling the corpse item “twitching zombie corpse” or even having a visual indicator like a different color for the corpse symbol. I just want it as streamlined as possible, but still dangerous to the player if they aren’t in the habit of double-tapping their kills.

I think that currently, corpses that can rise are highlighted yellow, so there is an indicator, just it could be better.

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