# Purifier is random?

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/purifier-is-random/11777>\
**Category:** The Bunker\
**Created:** [April 27, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/purifier-is-random/11777 "2016-04-27T15:20:51Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 11\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![glenmack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9fc348/32.png) [@glenmack](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/glenmack)\
**Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 3:20pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/purifier-is-random/11777/1 "2016-04-27T15:20:51Z")

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So I went looking for the odds on purifier removing bad mutations and the wiki says it’s random? Is this right?

Both good and bad mutations get equal chance of being removed? Maybe I just got it into my head it targets bad mutations.

On a side note, just passed a threshold for the first time, do you need serum for the post-threshold mutations or will regular mutagen of the right type trigger the threshold mutations?

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**Author:** ![BeerBeer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/c67d28/32.png) [@BeerBeer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/BeerBeer)\
**Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 3:31pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/purifier-is-random/11777/2 "2016-04-27T15:31:42Z")

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Purifier is random. It doesn’t discriminate AFAIK. All mutations are valid targets. You can’t get rid of your starting traits with purifiers though. What I don’t know if Robust Genetics currently affects purifiers in a way that it makes purifiers more likely to remove bad mutations. Probably not, though.

Serums are needed for post-thres mutations.

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**Author:** ![glenmack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9fc348/32.png) [@glenmack](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/glenmack)\
**Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 6:39pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/purifier-is-random/11777/3 "2016-04-27T18:39:36Z")

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[quote=“BeerBeer, post:2, topic:11777”]Purifier is random. It doesn’t discriminate AFAIK. All mutations are valid targets. You can’t get rid of your starting traits with purifiers though. What I don’t know if Robust Genetics currently affects purifiers in a way that it makes purifiers more likely to remove bad mutations. Probably not, though.

Serums are needed for post-thres mutations.[/quote]

Thanks for the info, fingers crossed I can find enough bird eggs, as bird mutagen seems to be the only limiting factor in manufacturing Alpha serum. I got lucky when I used purifier as it did remove the one bad trait I had, plus two of the weaker positive traits. I do have robust genetics as a starting trait though, so maybe it does help?

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**Author:** ![deoxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@deoxy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/deoxy)\
**Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 9:44pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/purifier-is-random/11777/4 "2016-04-27T21:44:59Z")

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[quote=“BeerBeer, post:2, topic:11777”]Purifier is random. It doesn’t discriminate AFAIK. All mutations are valid targets. You can’t get rid of your starting traits with purifiers though. What I don’t know if Robust Genetics currently affects purifiers in a way that it makes purifiers more likely to remove bad mutations. Probably not, though.

Serums are needed for post-thres mutations.[/quote]

I was under the impression that at least certain post-thresh mutations are unremovable (there’s a tag for that). The low-sleeping one, from elf-a for instance - I’ve purified ridiculously and never gotten rid of that.

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**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/cataclysmdda/original/1X/21b5d044e8473b25d0bf905d60477e25f6fbe0cf.png) [@system](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 10:11pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/purifier-is-random/11777/5 "2016-04-27T22:11:17Z")

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> [@glenmack](#):
>
> Thanks for the info, fingers crossed I can find enough bird eggs, as bird mutagen seems to be the only limiting factor in manufacturing Alpha serum.

You know that technically you can find unlimited bird eggs in shrubs, right? I have never made mutagen, but that seemed like it would be an easy portion of the task. I don’t know, though. Your experience may be different.

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**Author:** ![deoxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@deoxy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/deoxy)\
**Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 10:16pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/purifier-is-random/11777/6 "2016-04-27T22:16:30Z")

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> [@indigorain](#):
>
> [quote=“glenmack, post:3, topic:11777”]Thanks for the info, fingers crossed I can find enough bird eggs, as bird mutagen seems to be the only limiting factor in manufacturing Alpha serum.

You know that technically you can find unlimited bird eggs in shrubs, right? I have never made mutagen, but that seemed like it would be an easy portion of the task. I don’t know, though. Your experience may be different.[/quote]

Technically, but there are pretty rare, so you’ll spend a LOT of time and get a LOT of other crap along the way, if you’re making any significant amount of bird (or alpha/elfa) mutagen.

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**Author:** ![system](https://us1.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/uploads/cataclysmdda/original/1X/21b5d044e8473b25d0bf905d60477e25f6fbe0cf.png) [@system](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/system)\
**Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 10:23pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/purifier-is-random/11777/7 "2016-04-27T22:23:56Z")

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> [@deoxy](#):
>
> Technically, but there are pretty rare, so you’ll spend a LOT of time and get a LOT of other crap along the way, if you’re making any significant amount of bird (or alpha/elfa) mutagen.

It’s probably the case where when you don’t need it, it is everywhere, and when you need it, it is nowhere to be found.

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**Author:** ![Logrin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/logrin/32/209_2.png) [@Logrin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Logrin)\
**Post date:** [April 27, 2016, 10:41pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/purifier-is-random/11777/8 "2016-04-27T22:41:33Z")

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I’m not sure if it’s just mutagen, or mutation through artifacts…I don’t see why purifier would be left out. You CAN lose innate ‘starting’ mutations. I haven’t touched a purifier in ages, so I could be wrong.

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**Author:** ![deoxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@deoxy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/deoxy)\
**Post date:** [April 28, 2016, 2:09am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/purifier-is-random/11777/9 "2016-04-28T02:09:38Z")

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> [@Logrin](#):
>
> I’m not sure if it’s just mutagen, or mutation through artifacts…I don’t see why purifier would be left out. You CAN lose innate ‘starting’ mutations. I haven’t touched a purifier in ages, so I could be wrong.

Yes, you can lose them, but not from purifier - purifier will actually _give them back to you_ if you’ve managed to lose them (say, you had tentacle arms as a start and you got feathered arms or something that would replace them).

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**Author:** ![Wally-kun](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/wally-kun/32/375_2.png) [@Wally-kun](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Wally-kun)\
**Post date:** [May 2, 2016, 5:12am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/purifier-is-random/11777/10 "2016-05-02T05:12:27Z")

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From what I’ve observed, the starting mutation-like traits you can get are locked in, until they are altered. I had fleet-footed that I started with get upgraded by random mutagen into Road Runner, downgraded back to fleet-footed, and then removed by the next purifier I took. I assume it’s because the game doesn’t remember that that trait in particular was locked to start and treats it like any other mutation.

I don’t want to fiddle with more purifiers for testing, because I have full night vision and I really would like to keep it. Double upgrade from a random mutagen, too.

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**Author:** ![Coolthulhu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/coolthulhu/32/2446_2.png) [@Coolthulhu](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Coolthulhu)\
**Post date:** [May 2, 2016, 6:47am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/purifier-is-random/11777/11 "2016-05-02T06:47:03Z")

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Starting traits are marked as starting traits and I’m pretty sure it doesn’t change with regular mutations.

Purifier should restore your starting traits if you have something that cancels them and it tries to purify it. If you somehow manage to lose the starting traits without gaining the opposites, it will not bring the starting traits back, though.

Mutation code is a mess.