Power Armor Balance Discussion

[Rivet]

As was brought up in IRC, power armor is rather wonky. It’s super tough (which rather makes sense) and has a drawback (power it up or be seriously encumbered) but it still seems rather out of balance.

Some suggestions have been: requiring extra maintenance, not working at 100% efficiency in extreme weather, and making lots of noise when you move.

Please post your ideas here so that we can work out a plan to make power armor better overall.

[Anonymous]

[size=8pt]“The DoubleTech Power Armor, Mk. I: A heavy suit of basic power armor, offering very good protection against attacks, but hard to move in.” I thought I would start off by quoting the description of power armor. With that out of the way, some thoughts:

#Martial arts disabled while wearing power armor. Being able to kung fu, punching and kicking as if you were wearing nothing, seems a bit silly.

#Unarmed and bashing skills should get a bonus for when wearing power armor. You can hit harder but not faster.

#Likewise, things such as dodging, speed, dexterity, etc should take a negative hit while dodging.

#Limit what you can craft while wearing power armor. It is huge, bulky armor. Not exactly the best thing to wear while trying to craft certain things.

#Disable the use of using bandages or first aid (maybe even drinking/eating) while wearing a full suit of power armor.

That is all for now.[/size]

[system]

Yes, well, first thing first - power armor does not acts like a, well, power armor.
The trick of power armor that it is an exoskeleton rigged with armor to the point that it is able to give you normal mobility and also some strength boost. This is, however, rather wrong for the light power armor since it have much less armor plating and should boost you even more. And the heavy armor must give you no bonuses since it’s, duh, heavy.
On the nerfing side - extra maintenance is the only proper option 'cause of the power armor’s nature. It’s made to work in any environment and it won’t produse more noise than any man wearing caro pants. If powered, of course.

Speaking of exoskeletons, I’ve mentioned things related to this theme while asking about some lore moments.

1. Exosuits. Think of it as of a very small mecha - or, maybe, as of SS13 Gygax or Ripley. Actually, a vehicle that you can mount yourself in and walk around causing havoc.
2. Exoskeletons. Power armor without armor. No protection but hell of a strength boost.

[EkarusRyndren]

[quote=“Anonymous, post:2, topic:4179”][size=8pt]“The DoubleTech Power Armor, Mk. I: A heavy suit of basic power armor, offering very good protection against attacks, but hard to move in.” I thought I would start off by quoting the description of power armor. With that out of the way, some thoughts:

#Martial arts disabled while wearing power armor. Being able to kung fu, punching and kicking as if you were wearing nothing, seems a bit silly.

#Unarmed and bashing skills should get a bonus for when wearing power armor. You can hit harder but not faster.

#Likewise, things such as dodging, speed, dexterity, etc should take a negative hit while dodging.

#Limit what you can craft while wearing power armor. It is huge, bulky armor. Not exactly the best thing to wear while trying to craft certain things.

#Disable the use of using bandages or first aid (maybe even drinking/eating) while wearing a full suit of power armor.

That is all for now.[/size][/quote]

I like all of these, but I’d like to point out that modern gas masks have a little hose in them for water, so maybe not prevent liquids…

As it stands using PA without power is possible, and since you’re pretty much sealed in it even unpowered you can safely assault something, perhaps give the “Downed” condition (or something similar) with unpowered PA (that still has it’s servos)

[Anonymous]

[size=8pt]I suppose there could be some sort of system where you could be feed food/nutrients while wearing a full suit of armor, now that I think about it. Another thing:

#Power armor is not regular clothing. Maybe it should cost some time in order to put it on or take it off, run system checks to ensure everything is working properly.

#Going on what I just said, maybe have it where the suit can experience technical difficulties or short circuits. Maybe tie it into your electronics or mechanics or computers skill in order to prevent it or fix it. Just spit balling this idea though.

#Make power armor susceptible to more dangers. Maybe make power armor a prototype deal and you can only wear it for so long before it circuits or whatever overheat, thus preventing someone from using it the entire day/night to bring doom onto enemies.[/size]

[KA101]

OK. I’ve never actually used any power armor, so this is all theoretical. Sorry.

1. Power armor has expereinced lore-creep. Original concept was that the mk I was new enough when the Cata hit that it wasn’t front-line, was not intended for long-term use, and the official doctrine was deploy from the back of trucks. That’s why there’s only the Hauling Frame and no other inventory-space.

Now there’s a mk II, the heavy/light versions. Not sure whether the lore was intended to accommodate them.

Proposed fix: Power armor, especially the mk IIs = RARE, like flamethrowers or old-DDA Wood Axes. You find it, throw a party and invite the RNG so it stays happy with you.

2. Power Armor, being designed for quick-strike operations from trucks, isn’t intended for long-term use. There’s no inventory.

Proposed fix: I consider this an acceptable, if annoying, limitation on PA. You can’t practically go about in it constantly.

3. Power Armor, as I understand it, is kinda heavy, and the Heavy version in particular ought to be bulky too. Whilst you can move in it just fine when it’s powered…you are a foot wider, a few inches taller, and easily 50-100 pounds heavier? So maybe it should get stuck in Slime or marshlands?

Proposed fix: Slime, Dirt Mounds, and/or interior high-movecost terrain takes some additional penalty. I’ll throw out “double” for an initial thought, but that’s strictly a random figure and is completely subject to change.

4. Agreed that suitup and startup time ought to be a Thing, though probably not as much as it “really” would. Syncing a helmet might need a little longer: 3 turns total?

Proposed fix: equipping PA takes ~10 turns (a minute, unrealistically fast, but playability?) and powering it on takes a turn for the systems to warm up, helmet displays to boot up, etc. Player should receive messages saying as much:
“You put on the hip and leg armor.”
“You put the boots on and lock them onto the legs.”
“You heft on the chest-piece and fiddle it into the waist-actuator.”
“You slip your arms into the sleeves, fussing to get the second sleeve into position.”
“You put on the gauntlets and click them into position, flexing your fingers.”
…“You get the idea.”

[JanBlair]

Why don’t we just make it weak to bashing? Have you ever been hit with a mace or melee object while in steel armor? The bruising is terrible. And shock should obliterate you. Ever been shocked while wrapped in metal?

[EkarusRyndren]

Original concept was that the mk I was new enough when the Cata hit that it wasn’t front-line, was not intended for long-term use, and the official doctrine was deploy from the back of trucks.

Good god I’ve been legitimately using power armor…

[Aluminumfoil]

I always planned to use power armor that way, but by the time I got the supporting equipment and bionics to use it properly, I barely needed armor at all any more and it just wasn’t worth the trouble.

By the way, JanBlair, you’re misinformed. Rigid plates work just fine against blunt objects, and steel is just another variety of rigid plate.

[DevilRanger]

I imagine powerful blunt strikes such as from a Zombie Brute/Hulk or Jabberwock would put some strain on the contained servomotors and steel plates, since it seems that Power Armor would be designed to protect from firearms/bladed weapons because it was made pre-cataclysm presumably to fight other armed human combatants. So perhaps powerful only blunt attacks would be liable to cause serious damage to the suit and as such cause short circuits/uncover livewires for minor pain/damage or increase encumbrance due to misshapen plates and worn motors or some sort of additional power drain; though it seems that power drain wouldn’t do all too much to dissuade people with a large store of spare battery power or a power armor interface and large power pool.

[AerialK7]

I thought itd be the same as the Fallout power armor: “Made of the poly-laminate composite, the T-51b shell is lightweight and capable of absorbing over 2500 Joules of kinetic impact.” I also think that it should have its own power supply, at the cost of it being really noisy: “back-mounted TX-28 MicroFusion Pack which generates 60,000 Watts to power the HiFlo hydraulic systems built into the frame of the suit.” (Also a -1 agility and +1 strength for light and -2 agility and +2 strength for heavy) But thats sorta just my opinion…

[JanBlair]

Are you talking about fallout 1 and 2 or fallout 3 and new vegas? Because I think 1 and 2 had a better representation of power armor.

[AerialK7]

Are you talking about fallout 1 and 2 or fallout 3 and new vegas? Because I think 1 and 2 had a better representation of power armor.

The power armor in the games are the same. Except for a few change in stats like +3 strength and no agility debuff. (as far as im aware of)

[Inadequate]

One thing I thought would be useful would be power armour accessories that act like bionics. They won’t require high electronics or first aid skill to plug in, so you could use them without worrying about permanently damaging your body. The downside would be that you have to keep the power armour powered and worn to use them.

[Fetasajt]

You guys might want to check these out…

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JPS2l5fQ55A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q3CzYw5-qdA

I’m not sure but I don’t think that he is using servos.

[ShinQuickMan]

An easy re-balance would be to remove the hauling frame entirely from the Power Armor line, and give Power Armors a minimal amount of storage space to compensate (just enough to hold a UPS, and maybe a sidearm and spare ammo). Like KA101 said, these things weren’t built for long-term survivability in mind.

Also, as mentioned earlier, these things should be a bit rarer. They shouldn’t spawn in army surplus stores nor in traps, first and foremost. Probably shouldn’t spawn anywhere else other than in Military Bunkers, quite frankly, unless they were really field ready months before the game started.

Speaking of field-ready, if Power Armors aren’t removed from the Zombie Soldier spawn group entirely, they should really not spawn in pristine shape from such drops. Yeah, it’s only a couple of days after the cataclysm, but I’m sure that, mindless as they are, those zombies would manage to find some way to ruin some sensitive things somewhere. This would really only matter if there were some consequences for having damaged powered armor, but I’ll let someone else figure that out.

One last thing. Going back to the Hauling Frame, how about separating that from the Power Armor line and into it’s own category? It can basically act just as a wearable forklift, giving the user a lot of strength and storage capacity to carry stuff, but significantly restricts maneuvering for combat (severe torso, arm, and hand encumberment). Think a smaller, more form-fitting Work Loader from the Aliens franchise.

[Inadequate]

Well, I’ve never found pristine power armour from zombie soldiers. I’ve never found pristine clothes of any sort from any zombie, really. Found some on regular soldier corpses, though.