Possible method to balance CBMs?

[Tamior]

You can become a cyber-tree with the aforementioned system, you just can’t cross the threshold.

Also, I was specifically giving an example of the system that gives you "a reason to not install CBMs at all and instead go un-augmented.”
Any system that would not penalize you noticeably for having even a single CBM would fail to achieve that goal.

[Sanehatter]

You shouldn’t be unable to mutate as a cyborg, simply because your DNA is not going to recognize there are external objects in your body and stop itself from reacting to the mutagen you just drank/injected.
But we certainly could use negative or harmful interactions between mutations and CMBs, like a toolkit becoming faulty because the survivor’s hand just became a paw/tentacle.

[Tamior]

You shouldn’t be unable to mutate as a cyborg, simply because your DNA is not going to recognize there are external objects in your body and stop itself from reacting to the mutagen you just drank/injected.

Hence the proposal to prevent mutations from going post-threshold if you have CBM, not to prevent all mutations as such.

[Sanehatter]

Threshold is an arbitrary limiter where you stop being human at your “core”. It doesn’t really work differently than normal mutations.

[Tamior]

Crossing the threshold DOES work differently than “normal” mutations.
So I’m not entirely sure what your argument is…

[Sanehatter]

In terms of game mechanics, yes. It’s still a mutation that needs others of the same type as a requirement,it shouldn’t have any way to check if the player has any installed CBMs.

[Tamior]

If it’s checking for a “critical mass” of one type of mutations, I fail to see why having completely inorganic components can’t be something that also prevents that “critical mass” from being reached.

[Sanehatter]

Because the checking is done on the genetic code itself. At least I assume it is, since breaking the threshold basically means you crossed into another species.

[Tamior]

The checking being done on the genetic code itself does not prevent it from also being restricted if the overall condition of the body is somehow sub-optimal.
Heck, the glob explicitly requires a critical amount of mass to function. Some organic mass lost to CBM’s = not enough to cross the threshold.

[Sanehatter]

Sub-optimal body conditions have no effect at all on one’s DNA, maybe if its some radiation shit, but thats another matter.
We’ve been circling around on this discussion for a bit too long tho, so I’m not dragging it any longer than this post.

[Tamior]

Sub-optimal body conditions have no effect at all on one’s DNA, maybe if its some radiation shit, but thats another matter.

When you are mutating into several different things all at once it very well may, in fact, have an effect.

And that’s on top of the fact that if something is good for game balance, it might take precedence even if it’s a tiny bit unclear lore-wise.

[redxlaser15]

Maybe you have transcended your weak human form, but your arms remain mostly human still, at least internally anyway. May be a little hard to get through that bark of yours, but since you can bleed there is probably still some muscles and bones down there. In that case, why not install a couple enhancements? Does a CBM really rely and check for genetics? And do you truly have no remains of human DNA throughout your entire body?
It would’ve harder to install CBMs when you are past the threshold, and certain ones may not work or not work properly, but you most certainly can install a few.

[Tamior]

It would’ve harder to install CBMs when you are past the threshold, and certain ones may not work or not work properly, but you most certainly can install a few.

If post-threshold body somehow largely rejects further mutations (can’t cross another threshold), it may very well reject foreign inorganic materials (CBM’s).

[redxlaser15]

Sooo, if someone has their leg shattered and has it replaced by a titanium version (my dad has that), that means that they cannot go past the threshold, right?
It’s foreign inorganic material, so, unfortunately, if your mutations don’t let you grow new limbs then if you lose one you can never get a new one.
That’s what you are saying, right? Or am I misunderstanding?

[Tamior]

Sooo, if someone has their leg shattered and has it replaced by a titanium version (my dad has that), that means that they cannot go past the threshold, right?

They can, they just need to remove the CBM first. Also, an external prosthesis that isn’t connected to the nerves system is not exactly a CBM to begin with.

It’s foreign inorganic material, so, unfortunately, if your mutations don’t let you grow new limbs then if you lose one you can never get a new one.
That’s what you are saying, right? Or am I misunderstanding?

In C:DDA limbs can’t really be permanently lost from damage. They always grow back. So your question is kind of meaningless in the context of C:DDA.

[Admiral-Wily]

So this is how I see it CBMs work by receiving signals from the human brain telling it when to activate/turn off. they can interpret the signals from the brain because it is mapped and the CBM understands it’s architecture. Now lets say you mutate a tail. That’s going to change the mind a bit, for you to have feeling in the tail and to have any control over it and as you continue to mutate your mind becomes less and less human which in turn makes it harder for the CBM to properly interpret brain signals and then when you cross a threshold your mind is no longer human and thusly CBMs can no longer interpret any signals. CBMs will not stop mutations but start to become faulty as you mutate and on the extreme end the best case is the CBMs no longer work worst case a CBM could cause catastrophic damage for example the wired reflexes CBM could cause massive seizures because it is trying to send and interpet signals ment for a human brain/nervous system which is no longer compatible with your post-threshold brain/nervous system.

Or let me put it this way as a human your mind is a IBM compatible PC running DOS (DOS being the CBMs) and when you go Post-threshold you mind becomes a Mac but the CBMs are still running DOS it just doesn’t work.

[psyxypher]

Having any CBM (other than power storage) prevents crossing mutation threshold.
Being post-threshold prevents installation of any CBM.

I mean, that goes against established lore. Not just lore that’s discussed out of universe, but stuff you can find on the Lab Notes and see in action with the Bionic Zombies. Mutation takes into account foreign objects embedded in the body, which is why you get Shockers, Shocker Brutes, Bio-Operators…

CBMs will not stop mutations but start to become faulty as you mutate and on the extreme end the best case is the CBMs no longer work worst case a CBM could cause catastrophic damage for example the wired reflexes CBM could cause massive seizures because it is trying to send and interpet signals ment for a human brain/nervous system which is no longer compatible with your post-threshold brain/nervous system.

This doesn’t make much sense either, IMO, because they’re still nervous signals. They still work the exact same way, though they’re a bit different.

[Tamior]

I mean, that goes against established lore. Not just lore that’s discussed out of universe, but stuff you can find on the Lab Notes and see in action with the Bionic Zombies. Mutation takes into account foreign objects embedded in the body, which is why you get Shockers, Shocker Brutes, Bio-Operators…

Those are not mutants, those are Zombies.
There is not much of an established lore on how CBM’s and mutations interact for a “normal” human.

[Admiral-Wily]

This doesn’t make much sense either, IMO, because they’re still nervous signals. They still work the exact same way, though they’re a bit different.

Just because it’s still a nervous signal doesn’t mean it will work. Just as Mac OS X code will not work within a Windows OS. While it is still computer code the methods of processing them are very different. with heavy mutations you are definitely rewiring the structure of your brain to a great extent to accommodate new physiology.

Is there somebody with neurological experience around? I would hate it if I was just talking out of my ass here.

[Tamior]

As a biology major, I can assure you that “real-time cross-species genetic splicing via alien extra-dimensional goo” can work literally any way you describe. Because that has nothing to do with established science.