# Point-blank guns as melee Style rather than a shooting action?

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [November 25, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537 "2017-11-25T17:26:32Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 16\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Aluminumfoil](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/aluminumfoil/32/5163_2.png) [@Aluminumfoil](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Aluminumfoil)\
**Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 5:26pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537/1 "2017-11-25T17:26:32Z")

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Thinking of ways to do close-up gun combat, where the gun is less an aiming ballistic weapon and more a sort of contact-distance bullet injector. For visual reference, try John Wick 1 and 2, or Netflix’ The Punisher.

I have no idea if the following is feasible, but here’s the idea:

Set a “Firearms CQB” style.  
The attack roll changes from damage type plus melee to firearm type plus melee.  
On crit: Reduce the move cost by 50%, reduce ammunition by 1, and apply the crit is applied as if a gunshot had gotten it.  
Special Move: Reduce the move cost by 50%, reduce ammunition by 1, and try to hit the target with firearm type plus melee. On hit, apply damage as if a gunshot had gotten it.

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**Author:** ![Holiday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d2c977/32.png) [@Holiday](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Holiday)\
**Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 5:45pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537/2 "2017-11-25T17:45:40Z")

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So… Basically Metal Gear Solid 4’s CQC?

I mean, this could be done with a mod. I had already been thinking about it but I don’t use guns enough and it would seem out of place for any non special ops professions.

It’s essentially judo with guns though, so think lots of knockdowns. Even if what you’re describing doesn’t happen, it can open up opportunities to shoot them while they’re flat on their back.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 6:37pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537/3 "2017-11-25T18:37:29Z")

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Additional references:

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**Author:** ![Aluminumfoil](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/aluminumfoil/32/5163_2.png) [@Aluminumfoil](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Aluminumfoil)\
**Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 6:54pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537/4 "2017-11-25T18:54:59Z")

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Maybe add a penalty equal to weapon volume to the attack roll, too.

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**Author:** ![Holiday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d2c977/32.png) [@Holiday](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Holiday)\
**Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 7:09pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537/5 "2017-11-25T19:09:16Z")

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After looking for more info, an MGS style CQC style would be a mixed martial art that is very similar to Judo, uses greco-roman wrestling throws and shares a similar concept to Krav Maga. Combine this with the shooting techniques (and possibly some knife techniques) and you have a very solid style.

My only concern would be possible balance issues.

I’ve got some errands to run, but later today I’ll throw together a style that tries to fit this niche and possibly upload it in the form of a mod for feedback purposes.

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**Author:** ![proxiehunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e68b1a/32.png) [@proxiehunter](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/proxiehunter)\
**Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 9:58pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537/6 "2017-11-25T21:58:18Z")

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> [@Holiday](#):
>
> So… Basically Metal Gear Solid 4’s CQC?
> 
> I mean, this could be done with a mod. I had already been thinking about it but I don’t use guns enough and it would seem out of place for any non special ops professions.

If my character can learn Escrima from a book they can learn this from a book too.

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**Author:** ![Holiday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d2c977/32.png) [@Holiday](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Holiday)\
**Post date:** [November 25, 2017, 10:03pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537/7 "2017-11-25T22:03:23Z")

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Really, with the complexity of any of the in-game styles, a CQC manual wouldn’t be out of the question. I just have a tendency to over think things. Another thought, I wish there was a better way to learn the biojutsu style.

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**Author:** ![tarburst98](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/tarburst98/32/1355_2.png) [@tarburst98](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/tarburst98)\
**Post date:** [November 26, 2017, 11:56pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537/8 "2017-11-26T23:56:18Z")

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well a big balance thing would be like the style NEEDS a gun for most of it’s moves and it uses ammo. trying to use it without a loaded gun severely dampens it’s power because “gun attack” is like an alternate crit for it. for skills it would use/train melee, handguns, and maybe cut//pierce if you can use a knife with it?

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**Author:** ![proxiehunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e68b1a/32.png) [@proxiehunter](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/proxiehunter)\
**Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 12:31am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537/9 "2017-11-27T00:31:29Z")

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Most moves need ammo, there’s always the good old pistol whip.

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**Author:** ![Zalli](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zalli/32/1256_2.png) [@Zalli](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zalli)\
**Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 2:53am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537/10 "2017-11-27T02:53:09Z")

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There’s a wikipedia article for this kind of combat: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun\_fu](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gun_fu)

And yes it would be sick to see it in the game.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 5:11am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537/11 "2017-11-27T05:11:35Z")

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Gun fu it is not, there’s a lot you can do with close quarters fighting and gunplay without devolving into gun fu silliness.

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**Author:** ![Zalli](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zalli/32/1256_2.png) [@Zalli](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zalli)\
**Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 1:09pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537/12 "2017-11-27T13:09:39Z")

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What if I wanted gun-fu silliness? If melee techniques could use point-blank shots then wouldn’t a silly style such as gun-fu be also possible to introduce, maybe in a mod.  
Disarms and hitting all adjacent enemies with guns would be so sweet, realism be damned. Quick mid-combat reload John Wick style would be also a nice technique if it were possible.

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**Author:** ![Holiday](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/d2c977/32.png) [@Holiday](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Holiday)\
**Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 2:05pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537/13 "2017-11-27T14:05:31Z")

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> [@tarburst98](#):
>
> well a big balance thing would be like the style NEEDS a gun for most of it’s moves and it uses ammo. trying to use it without a loaded gun severely dampens it’s power because “gun attack” is like an alternate crit for it. for skills it would use/train melee, handguns, and maybe cut//pierce if you can use a knife with it?

I mean, yea sure, you need a gun to actually SHOOT anything. I don’t see why you’d suddenly lose tons of mixed martial arts knowledge simply because you weren’t holding a gun though. Imo, it would be better though to say “requires\_gun” so that the attack just outright doesn’t happen without a gun and enable some kind of rapid-strike or crit tech in its place that’s unarmed only.

Personally, I think having options is powerful enough in its own right.

> [@Zalli](#):
>
> What if I wanted gun-fu silliness?

A gun fu mod would probably work with a bit of lua scripting (wouldn’t know, haven’t tried), but my PC has no way to write lua scripts as is and it’s only something I’ve dabbled in for the purpose of easier combos in MUDs.

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**Author:** ![Aluminumfoil](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/aluminumfoil/32/5163_2.png) [@Aluminumfoil](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Aluminumfoil)\
**Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537/14 "2017-11-27T15:07:26Z")

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If I recall correctly, reload speed (from a worn magazine) is already tied to firearms skill?

Re. requiring a weapon for the Style, it makes sense to me. Based on how the game is set up now, your tons of mixed martial arts knowledge are represented by your melee attack Skills. Style represents what specific approach you’re trying to take towards using those skills. If the specific approach (Style) is “one way or another, get the barrel of my firearm pointing at a bad guy who’s in contact distance with me,” and the general approach (Skill) is “hit the bad guy as hard and accurately as possible with whatever I have at hand,” then turning off the style when there’s no use getting the barrel of the firearm pointing at a bad guy makes sense and doesn’t represent any loss of ability.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 5:37pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537/15 "2017-11-27T17:37:07Z")

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> [@Zalli](#):
>
> What if I wanted gun-fu silliness?

You answered the question yourself, in a mod.

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**Author:** ![proxiehunter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e68b1a/32.png) [@proxiehunter](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/proxiehunter)\
**Post date:** [November 27, 2017, 8:38pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/point-blank-guns-as-melee-style-rather-than-a-shooting-action/14537/16 "2017-11-27T20:38:09Z")

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For things some people want and others don’t, make a mod. Martial arts as I recall are all json so it’s easy. Too bad the same wasn’t done with needing painkillers to install bionics.