Piercing Dmg overpowered?

[KA101]

(Apologies: I’m fostering an 8-week old kitten until the weekend or so, and he’s currently sleeping on my lap. Makes using the laptop tricky.)

I agree that there’s no reason to strictly refuse to fight at range or in melee.

Personal: I typically avoid firearms thanks to the noise (I play Dynamic) & RNG-linked ammo factor. Archery seemed interesting until ahem someone made basic arrows take all sorts of crafting, rather than the grab & go with wood and a knife. Basically, I think I’d need 10 volume or so in order to make the New! Balanced! arrows, and for a melee fighter that’s not trivial.

In the event I need to kill something–typically a Turret–at range, I stockpile Rocks, sneak up in the dark, and start throwing at range 6 or so; ST10-11 if it matters. The Rocks aren’t destroyed but the turret is–remember, these are baseball-sized rocks.

[system]

I don’t like what you would call ‘requirements’.
Every time I hear the word ‘requirements’ I wince.

Making guns a requirement for dealing with robots is absurd.

Also, back on the tracks!

Armor should be applied to crits with melee, but nobody can kill hardly anything with a pointy stick. I doubt anyone brave enough to attack a copbot would do so with a sharpened branch.

Now I understand that cutting shouldn’t do shit against metal and whatnot but you are overselling guns.

You would need a .45 caliber or a 12 gauge ‘superslug’ to pierce most any amount of armor that wouldn’t easily be cannonfodder for anyone with a rock.

These are taser bots, not mech warriors. There is nothing a gun can do a good sledgehammer can’t.

Can your 9mm (which isn’t even designed to kill, only maim criminals) open a door silently? A crowbar can. Can your 12 gauge saiga butcher a corpse? A machete can.

Anyway my point is that if robots have armor a piercing crit shouldn’t negate that. But making melee more difficult just so you feel you aren’t cheating the game isn’t fair to the players.

I think you have a bit too much of “Call of Duty Syndrome”. Guns aren’t that fucking powerful or great. You couldn’t go to war and do noscopes and quick scopes. The 2-5 shot bam your dead thing is bullshit. I have friends in the army and a medic wasn’t wearing his armor and took 37 5.56 NATO rounds to the chest and legs. He was better in under a year. Guns aren’t made for killing the person outright remember, only to disable internal organs and let organ failure or bloodless kill them. Neither of which a robot or zombie is affected by. I personally think guns need a NERF.

Remember the story of David and Goliath? Where David faced down a giant and killed him with a stone from his sling to the head? Really if you want to nit-pick about how a stone wouldn’t do that much against a giants skull I would launch a rock out of a sling at your head and then let you decide.

And for the coup de grace: Would you wear the same armor that the robots do and go out with only a point-blank taser against a guy who has trained with a spear for 3 days? If so, would you feel safe against him? Lets remember that the copbots taser doesn’t even leave the victim stunned on the ground.

The needs of one two<The needs of everyone else.
[sub]Please note that these are the opinions of gtaguy and are not to be taken as fact or law. If you have any problem with my opinions or beliefs please take it up with my ass. I’m entitled to my opinions and if anyone says otherwise they can contact the aforementioned anus.[/sub]

[halberdsturgeon]

I have no interest in Call of Duty, nor have I any interest in getting into a big, stupid debate about what caliber bullet would be required to punch through steel or how powerful guns are.

The only reason guns even came up was because someone early on in the thread complained that removing the ability to kill robots with pointy sticks was tantamount to forcing players to use limited resources to deal with them. This was a foolish argument because a. the game already penalises players for meleeing most robotic foes, b. ammunition isn’t limited, and c. there is nothing wrong with a game presenting challenges to the player that require limited resources to be expended.

In short, I don’t care if a 9mm bullet can’t kill a robot. I don’t care if a sledgehammer can kill a robot, god knows heavy melee weapons have little enough purpose in the game as it stands. I don’t even care if robots are practically impervious to both bullets and melee and require explosives or energy weapons to destroy. I do care that enemies made out of steel have no way of mitigating piercing damage because the game fails to take into account the fact that it was delivered by a wooden stick.

[Stevensonz]

Simply put enemies needs some pierce resistance and armor buff with regards to their material. Example Liquid/Plastic type enemies should bounce off most Bashing damaging but not cutting/piercing.

The game is already easy enough once you get your skills past 3 and decent stats unless you built your stats to be weak like 6,6,16,10.

If you really think about it armor should reduce critical damage to even make said armor effective (Other wise armor would be just be a capped dmg reducer)

and Critical hits happening 100% of the time once you reach a certain skill level of 6+ with decent stats is unrealistic really (Criticals should have a set cap of 70%-80% from happening).

Also in regards to arrows the fix simulates realism and simply carving a pointed skewer like arrow with wood and nothing to support it (fire hardening,fletches,arrow head) will not do much dmg even if you stab something with that skewer like thing hence the change to fletching of arrows.

It fixed the factor that you won’t be able to abuse it that early and not take out the difficulty fun because starting too powerful early takes out fun faster.

Anyway if you noticed New special arrows have been added just to offset the difficulty of creating arrows, once you make Flammable arrows and use a lighter to turn them into novelty Flaming arrows (It will set a target on fire better than any incendiary round could ever do cause it isn’t a 1in4 chance for flesh type)

Similarly plans regarding weapons (Yes Melee weapons included which means unarmed gloves with effects) would be making new specialty effect ones which produces electric,fire,acid,freezing dmg.

[eternalflame]

I never saw 100% chance of critical hits a problem. I do not see them as some kind of a lucky break. Rather, my character is so madly skilled he strikes at vital spots every time. Perhaps it requires too little skill to attain such mastery in the game, however. Have you considered lowering your starting points if the game is too easy for you?

[Stevensonz]

@eternalflame already did that but it just made the character suck with limited growth potential more than raising monster difficulty by modding them all to be X5-X6 harder in terms of HP,Armor, a little Damage boost ,Additional Flags,Faster Special effects proc.

[darth_servo]

Simply put enemies needs some pierce resistance and armor buff with regards to their material. Example Liquid/Plastic type enemies should bounce off most Bashing damaging but not cutting/piercing.

Are you saying liquid/gelatinous enemies should resist Bashing damage, but not Cutting/Piercing? That seems counterintuitive.

[Stevensonz]

[quote=“Stevensonz, post:79, topic:1786”]Simply put enemies needs some pierce resistance and armor buff with regards to their material. Example Liquid/Plastic type enemies should bounce off most Bashing damaging but not cutting/piercing.

Are you saying liquid/gelatinous enemies should resist Bashing damage, but not Cutting/Piercing? That seems counterintuitive.[/quote]

Liquid enemies are the blobs/goo they would be rubbery like, so it would be hard to splat them normally but easy to cut and pierce. (But I’d rather just spray the fire extinguisher on them anyway as it’s easier to kill them with it.)

[system]

Idea: make robots impervious to everything but fire.

That way we can kill it with fire.

Stevenson, I do believe we have a troll about. Because you seem to not know much about the game for we have no plastic enemies and the goo people aren’t made of rubber. Also, you seem to have no idea of how difficult cataclysm is.

If you want more difficulty play dark souls on the hardest difficulty with heavy roll and a controller that has been hit with a sledgehammer.

And now for the coup de grace: [size=12pt]If you don’t like certain aspects of the game, don’t use them. The great thing about cataclysm is the amount of options you can get for a single problem. And if you find the game not challenging then I’m at a loss, but no amount of modifying enemies to be harder on us less skilled players is really gonna help with that. I do think armor should be applied to crits, but you shouldn’t make robots arbitrarily more difficult just for realisms sake.[/size]

[Bladerock]

Stevensonz should learn coding and make his own branch. Everyone who disagrees with the direction DDA is taking is doing it.

[Stevensonz]

Stevensonz should learn coding and make his own branch. Everyone who disagrees with the direction DDA is taking is doing it.

Coding everything from scratch no, but I do know how to make a few edits and new additions on the files once you understand how it works. (also for some advance coding devs and other coders are happy to help/answer coding questions) I have a git hub branch and I use my time to push additions that are balanced and try to fix easy bugs.

@gtaguy well at least you agree on armor applying to criticals that reduces un-realistic damages (But criticals should have a cap chance of 70%-80% to simulate something called a critical as lucky streak not purely skill based)

[Bladerock]

Why do criticals have to be luck based? There’s nothing in the game to indicate they are lucky hits and not your character deliberately exploiting weaknesses.

[Stevensonz]

Why do criticals have to be luck based? There’s nothing in the game to indicate they are lucky hits and not your character deliberately exploiting weaknesses.

for characters that are not skilled yet they are luck based as even with 0 skill you have a chance to randomly do a critical headshot with a gun or critical with melee. While highly skilled characters have a 100% chance of doing it right now because it pushes the critical chance to 100% and no set cap for critical chances.

[system]

Well, everyone gets lucky Stevenson.

And if I was lvl 2-6 melee I would probably hit the head or weak points like unarmored areas a lot more frequently. But it takes time to train to these levels. You seem to have forgotten that.

Stevenson, play with skill rust on. Your skill level won’t stay high for long and so the game remains difficult.

[Misha]

You would need a .45 caliber or a 12 gauge ‘superslug’ to pierce most any amount of armor that wouldn’t easily be cannonfodder for anyone with a rock.

.45 ACP actually performs very badly against armor. Low velocity, large surface area.

[system]

Eh.

By ‘superslug’ I meant the high density alloy slugs people use nowadays.

[Weyrling]

[quote=“Bladerock, post:87, topic:1786”]Why do criticals have to be luck based? There’s nothing in the game to indicate they are lucky hits and not your character deliberately exploiting weaknesses.

for characters that are not skilled yet they are luck based as even with 0 skill you have a chance to randomly do a critical headshot with a gun or critical with melee. While highly skilled characters have a 100% chance of doing it right now because it pushes the critical chance to 100% and no set cap for critical chances.[/quote]
I see no issue with the ability to become skilled enough to know exactly what you’re doing with a given weapon.
It is currently easy to get a weapon skill to the point of all critical hits, I believe it should be (much) harder to get to this point

When you are a genuine master at something, you do not need to rely on luck to strike an enemy in a critical area, especially when they’re as stupid as a zombie, even robots always have gaping weak spots to exploit: propulsion, weapons, sensors, all highly vulnerable spots that are impossible to hide without circumventing their purpose.

I would like to see tiredness and pain have a more significant effect on aiming and critical hits though, I seem to be able to burst fire critical waves of zombies even if I’m exhausted and a bear just ripped my leg off.

[xLemor]

I would like to see tiredness and pain have a more significant effect on aiming and critical hits though, I seem to be able to burst fire critical waves of zombies even if I'm exhausted and a bear just ripped my leg off.

awww cmon it’s just a flesh wound!

[Iosyn]

[quote=“xLemor, post:93, topic:1786”]

I would like to see tiredness and pain have a more significant effect on aiming and critical hits though, I seem to be able to burst fire critical waves of zombies even if I’m exhausted and a bear just ripped my leg off.

awww cmon it’s just a flesh wound![/quote]
indeed. It’s more like your leg suddenly fell victim to pins and needles, at which point you are required to report to the local hospital for assimilation reconstructive surgery, to remove the said effect of pins and needles.

[system]

Ahem.

If you find your skills are too high [size=14pt]DON’T FUCKING TURN SKILL RUST OFF![/size]

Seriously, if you find that getting super high levels is easy turn on skill rust. BUT GTAGUY IT’S SO QUICK! Well you are the one saying the game was too easy, now it’s too hard? Go fuck yourself.