# Piercing Dmg overpowered?

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786>\
**Category:** The Bunker\
**Created:** [June 16, 2013, 7:29am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786 "2013-06-16T07:29:40Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Stevensonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Stevensonz](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stevensonz)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 7:29am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/1 "2013-06-16T07:29:40Z")

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Piercing dmg discussion and reality check, example would be a simple pointed stick spear killing a robot with said steel plating  
(Defies all logic as a pointed stick of wood cannot penetrate a thick steel plating).

Monsters should have piercing armor to give more realism and balance to things.

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**Author:** ![Bladerock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@Bladerock](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Bladerock)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 11:03am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/2 "2013-06-16T11:03:51Z")

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Are you going to say punching robots should also be impossible because steel plating \> flesh and bone?

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**Author:** ![Stevensonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Stevensonz](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stevensonz)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 11:27am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/3 "2013-06-16T11:27:04Z")

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> [@Bladerock](#):
>
> Are you going to say punching robots should also be impossible because steel plating \> flesh and bone?

yes punching should be near impossible when monsters have a higher bash armor to deflect weak punches/ low dmg mutations and low unarmed.

Normal punching something made of steel plating enough to cause dents would require you to have high str and be very skilled in unarmed combat.

let’s take for example Shaolin monks who can actually cause dents in metal they are physically strong and very skilled so they know that even metal has weak-spots and attacks those area.

While your average survivor let’s say has 8 STR and 4 un-armed skill and not using martial arts with dmg modifiers (Scorpion,Viper,Leopard) would just be breaking his hands and causing no dmg. (But the weakest robot called manhack which is fist-sized well you can easily trash-that since it cannot have steel plating and is small)

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**Author:** ![Austupaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5ac83/32.png) [@Austupaio](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Austupaio)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 11:46am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/4 "2013-06-16T11:46:15Z")

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Punching a man-hack, read flying malevolent saw-blade, sounds like a great idea.

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**Author:** ![Bladerock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@Bladerock](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Bladerock)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 11:50am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/5 "2013-06-16T11:50:14Z")

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Yes, let’s make the game frustrating by making most weapons without limited ammunition useless.

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**Author:** ![Stevensonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Stevensonz](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stevensonz)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:00pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/6 "2013-06-16T12:00:17Z")

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> [@Bladerock](#):
>
> Yes, let’s make the game frustrating by making most weapons without limited ammunition useless.

Useless if unskilled and not strong (if punching) is more like it. some things needs some reality checks really. look at bows the arrows are now a step by step process to get the full benefit of a wooden arrow. (and in the future we will be seeing bolts as step by step craft as well)

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**Author:** ![Bladerock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@Bladerock](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Bladerock)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:11pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/7 "2013-06-16T12:11:32Z")

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Realistically, none of the hand weapons in this game would punch through military grade armor. And your fists are even less likely.

You are asking for unbeatable enemies unless you carry a high powered armor piercing rifle with you at all times.

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**Author:** ![Stevensonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Stevensonz](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stevensonz)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:23pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/8 "2013-06-16T12:23:30Z")

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[quote=“Bladerock, post:7, topic:1786”]Realistically, none of the hand weapons in this game would punch through military grade armor. And your fists are even less likely.

You are asking for unbeatable enemies unless you carry a high powered armor piercing rifle with you at all times.[/quote]

I am not asking for unbeatable enemies nor does it involve carrying a high powered armor piercing rifle, anyway this was a discussion about piercing dmg which got derailed to punching robots.

and technically we don’t have power suit set / power suit set MKII wearing NPC’S and monsters, though you made me realize that punching deserves that balancing.

we still have lazers,explosions,fire, acid bombs and let’s not forget that vehicles can 1 hit anything given the right speed. which is easy to get and stable.

anyway If you find the Jabberwock good luck punching that thing to death.

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**Author:** ![Bladerock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@Bladerock](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Bladerock)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:37pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/9 "2013-06-16T12:37:38Z")

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Fire doesn’t really do anything against armor and makes for a poor weapon in general. You can’t stick vehicles inside of labs and other places where most armored enemies dwell. Relying on explosions, lazers or firearms is relying on a limited resource.

And nerfing the weakest form of combat (melee) seems like a step in a bad direction.

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**Author:** ![Stevensonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Stevensonz](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stevensonz)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 12:46pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/10 "2013-06-16T12:46:00Z")

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it’s not a nerf it’s a balance check nerf-batting is extreme like removing martial arts from the game, what I was implying is that the larger robots should definitely be able to withstand weak punches as they have Steel plating enough to withstand normal blunt force and weak piercing.

resources aren’t that limited really. you can’t stick vehicles inside that’s true but you can build a motorbike inside. and who said Melee is the weakest? It’s superb than most weapons are because un-armed martial arts allows you to attack fast, do special moves and look cool.

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**Author:** ![Nighthawk](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nighthawk/32/896_2.png) [@Nighthawk](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Nighthawk)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:13pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/11 "2013-06-16T13:13:30Z")

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Gauntlets, anyone?

No, really. I agree with both sides, sort of. I think that punching really ought not to penetrate heavy armor, but I don’t see why people who use fists can’t get some kind of upgrade. Seriously - if you got some kind of epic lightsaber-crystal-infused glove with spikes all over it, you shouldn’t have a problem killing things with punches. Heck, even just chitinous gauntlets should do something to increase your damage.

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**Author:** ![Stevensonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Stevensonz](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stevensonz)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:17pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/12 "2013-06-16T13:17:08Z")

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[quote=“Nighthawk, post:11, topic:1786”]Gauntlets, anyone?

No, really. I agree with both sides, sort of. I think that punching really ought not to penetrate heavy armor, but I don’t see why people who use fists can’t get some kind of upgrade. Seriously - if you got some kind of epic lightsaber-crystal-infused glove with spikes all over it, you shouldn’t have a problem killing things with punches. Heck, even just chitinous gauntlets should do something to increase your damage.[/quote]

well currently there are no “unarmed” tagged melee gloves atm but yeah sometime in the future it would work though it needs to be futuristic like Kinetic Energy Gauntlets or something (But then again it will be rare or craft-able only for balance) and the basic ones like Hand wraps which adds some dmg to be common but also craftable.

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**Author:** ![Austupaio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b5ac83/32.png) [@Austupaio](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Austupaio)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:23pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/13 "2013-06-16T13:23:17Z")

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> [@Bladerock](#):
>
> You are asking for unbeatable enemies unless you carry a high powered armor piercing rifle with you at all times.

Or an EMP grenade, a tazer, a bomb, or augmented power-arms with wolverine blades.

All of these exist in the game and aren’t even necessarily that hard to get your hands on.

Being able to kill a robot unarmed or with a wooden spear is ridiculous.

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**Author:** ![Steelfist](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ac8455/32.png) [@Steelfist](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Steelfist)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:27pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/14 "2013-06-16T13:27:30Z")

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Destroying robots with horrifically deformed fetuses is a part of the fun of Cataclysm.

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**Author:** ![Smoker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e19b73/32.png) [@Smoker](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Smoker)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 1:39pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/15 "2013-06-16T13:39:09Z")

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There doesn’t seem to be any sort of armour against piercing, which is probably mean’t to imply that it “Pierces” through armour.

Which is fine for fleshy enemies, because your average monster doesn’t have super-alloy plating beneath its skin.(Wouldn’t it be fun to find a Zed with armour underneath as you try and bash it with your fists?). Its also find for smaller robots, because they don’t have much armour to pierce though in the first place.

Of course, I couldn’t speak from personal experience whether or not its actually possible to smash up a Chicken Walker with a spear, because I’ve never bothered to find out.

For unarmed, There really does need to be some sort of knuckler or glove or something that adds to your damage without being a weapon to equip on its own(to justify beating robots up with your bare hands), but that’s something completely different.

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**Author:** ![GlyphGryph](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/glyphgryph/32/847_2.png) [@GlyphGryph](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/GlyphGryph)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/16 "2013-06-16T15:30:14Z")

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Also, most of the robots probably have things like joints and sensors and stuff that a simple wooden spear could, in fact, mess up.

And you’ll notice that they DO have quite a good deal of damage resistance - try to take out a robot with wooden arrows and see how amusing the result is.

There’s definitely some wonky balance stuff going on though in a lot of places, mostly relating to how easy it is to get critical hits and how incredibly effective they are at increasing damage, regardless of enemy type.

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**Author:** ![Vorpal2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/e0b2c6/32.png) [@Vorpal2](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Vorpal2)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 3:38pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/17 "2013-06-16T15:38:38Z")

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> [@Bladerock](#):
>
> You are asking for unbeatable enemies unless you carry a high powered armor piercing rifle with you at all times.

I personally like this idea - as long as you’re not bumping into the enemies constantly, something that would actually justify using my stash of LAWs would be nice.

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**Author:** ![Stevensonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Stevensonz](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stevensonz)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 3:42pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/18 "2013-06-16T15:42:40Z")

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or more important having end game feel end game… that sounded weird, and yeah somehow critical hits too easy to score just get a very high skill in combat with decent stats and you’ve got a 100% crit machine.

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**Author:** ![Bladerock](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/f04885/32.png) [@Bladerock](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Bladerock)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 3:47pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/19 "2013-06-16T15:47:54Z")

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[quote=“Stevensonz, post:18, topic:1786”]or more important having end game feel end game…[/quote]Go to the swamp with a shotgun for the ultimate endgame experience.

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**Author:** ![Stevensonz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Stevensonz](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stevensonz)\
**Post date:** [June 16, 2013, 3:58pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/piercing-dmg-overpowered/1786/20 "2013-06-16T15:58:41Z")

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> [@Bladerock](#):
>
> [quote=“Stevensonz, post:18, topic:1786”]or more important having end game feel end game…[/quote]Go to the swamp with a shotgun for the ultimate endgame experience.

the swamp lol, eh it’s boring out-there I’d rather stay in the big city with my mod (zombies have x5 hp every zombie can grab you (except zombie kids which bites after an attack, and special attacks happening often) I particularly enjoyed beating up the hulk with 1200hp using scorpion style keeping him permanently to the wall cause I crit knockback stun him to death.

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