Petition to change moose description

Azrad · 2015-07-04T06:18:58.000Z

In general, I don’t have a lot of trouble with moose now. Use run, but if fighting, use run and wait for them in a shrub to slow them down. Light shrub on fire if possible. If character has martial arts, then use that, otherwise use a weapon that’s slow.

Random_dragon · 2015-07-04T06:25:22.000Z

Plus, can’t we just tone down aggression? What’s the aggro stat for bears? If I recall they’re slightly less rageprone.

Kadian · 2015-07-04T06:29:34.000Z

I think some are missing the point of the thread by now
The point is NOT that the Moose ingame is overpowered. Moose in real life are quite strong, and they can put up a fight, especially if its against a human. The point of this thread is that they’re so damn aggressive, which is true and should be changed. In fact, I believe that Moose are quite peaceable, if you leave them alone, something, which is NOT given in the current state of the game. Attacking Wolves and Bears? That’s more likely than an attacking Moose, to be quite honest.

Random_dragon:

Plus, can’t we just tone down aggression? What’s the aggro stat for bears? If I recall they’re slightly less rageprone.

Bears have an Aggro of -10 and a morale of 60. A moose has an aggro of -15 and a moral of 80, and I think the Morale is actually the problem, they just keep fighting once they started.

for comparison, a wolf has aggro of 0 and morale of 20, a Cougar has aggro 0 and morale 40

Random_dragon · 2015-07-04T06:35:57.000Z

Hmm. So morale is what has to be tweaked, it seems. What’s the value for deer?

Kadian · 2015-07-04T07:02:11.000Z

Deers Aggro is -99, the morale is -5

Pthalocy · 2015-07-04T07:12:32.000Z

If anyone is extra clever, let moose have their current highly aggressive nature every autumn. Mating season is murder rampage nightmare time. Assuming they aren’t all zombie meese by then.

Shopkeeper · 2015-07-04T14:14:50.000Z

Honestly I haven’t had all that much issue with Moose and early game survivors. It’s just like how you deal with wild animals in real life, you stay the fuck away from potential furry murder machines to give them their space (usually about a map tile for me) and you continue on with your business.

Random_dragon · 2015-07-04T15:00:09.000Z

I have had trouble with moose being hard to flee from at times though. =w=

Kadian:

Deers Aggro is -99, the morale is -5

Ah. That explains their skittishness. Maybe a moale in between the current value and the bear’s would be better?

voskhod · 2015-07-04T20:46:28.000Z

Shopkeeper:

Honestly I haven’t had all that much issue with Moose and early game survivors. It’s just like how you deal with wild animals in real life, you stay the fuck away from potential furry murder machines to give them their space (usually about a map tile for me) and you continue on with your business.

Thats only a solution when you have unobstructed view, and at day.
What if you want to go through a forest where at any moment you can round a tree and find yourself only 10 tiles away from a moose that instantly aggro’s on you?
What if you want to go through an area at night and dont even see the moose until they’re right up in your face?

Azrad · 2015-07-04T21:02:33.000Z

You can still run.

Random_dragon · 2015-07-04T21:15:40.000Z

You can’t run from the mooseseses.

Kadian · 2015-07-04T21:17:46.000Z

Azrad:

You can still run.

Run? From a moose? Good luck with that! A moose has a speed of 200, and with the current morale? They rarely stop attacking you.

Also, again for comparison: ALL zombies seem to have a morale of 100, means, they Never stop following you unless they completely loose you. I’d recommend dropping the morale to at least bear level ; or, if Pthalocys Idea works, put it down to 40 and back to 80 in autumn.

Random_dragon · 2015-07-04T21:19:52.000Z

I agree, bear level. I don’t know how complex it would be to make seasonal morale a thing.

EDIT: And now I am become Derp, destroyer of worlds. https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/12837

kevin.granade · 2015-07-05T00:23:37.000Z

[quote=“voskhod, post:17, topic:9979”]Thats only a solution when you have unobstructed view, and at day.
What if you want to go through a forest where at any moment you can round a tree and find yourself only 10 tiles away from a moose that instantly aggro’s on you?
What if you want to go through an area at night and dont even see the moose until they’re right up in your face?[/quote]
Yes, wandering around with low visibility after the world has ended needs to be a safe, enjoyable experience. I’ll get right on that \s

Random_dragon · 2015-07-05T00:25:11.000Z

Is 10 less morale seriously that big a break in realism? I did not expect a minor change to provoke smartassed remarks about whether or not mooseseses are implacable terminators. ._.

Shopkeeper · 2015-07-05T02:09:26.000Z

[quote=“voskhod, post:17, topic:9979”]Thats only a solution when you have unobstructed view, and at day.
What if you want to go through a forest where at any moment you can round a tree and find yourself only 10 tiles away from a moose that instantly aggro’s on you?
What if you want to go through an area at night and dont even see the moose until they’re right up in your face?[/quote]
I’ve walked through forests at night and run smack dab into moose while stumbling around without getting brutally mauled immediately. In any of those cases I tend to turn around and walk (or run) the other way. Honestly, 10 tiles on an open field is a good stand off distance with moose in my experience, even with animal discord putting me at a disadvantage they don’t often charge out of the blue. The only time a moose has deliberately aggro’d on me that I can recall is when I witnessed an NPC shoot one with a crossbow and proceed to get brutalized, before my shelter NPC follower open fired as well and got pulped, then it came for me. Thankfully a heavily wounded moose and a survivor with a knife spear make for a week’s supply of moose steak.

Going by this thread it seems like I’m an exception to the rule here, but moose have really been no more prevalent a source of death for my early game survivors then the countless other ways you can get yourself killed in the Cataclysm.

Random_dragon · 2015-07-05T02:13:40.000Z

The real issue is once one GETS pissed off, damn near nothing in the world will calm it down.

kevin.granade · 2015-07-05T02:44:18.000Z

Random_dragon:

I did not expect a minor change to provoke smartassed remarks about whether or not mooseseses are implacable terminators. ._.

If you don’t like smartassed comments you might consider not making them in the first place.

chaosvolt:

I made the obvious suggestion in response to a complaint that moose are, as usual, implacable terminators.

Random_dragon:

The real issue is once one GETS pissed off, damn near nothing in the world will calm it down.

So my counter-proposal, accelerated calming if there are no targets in some distance, no idea what kind of distance that should be.

Random_dragon · 2015-07-05T02:53:46.000Z

Hmm. Understood. Sorry about that. @_@

Kevin Granade:

So my counter-proposal, accelerated calming if there are no targets in some distance, no idea what kind of distance that should be.

And hmm, not entirely sure either, though…ah. it has PLAYER_CLOSE as an anger trigger, right? What’s the distance on that? So long as the trigger value isn’t something like melee range, that could be a could value to use. Failing that, I’m guessing a minimum of 10-12 tiles, if that’s larger.

Pthalocy · 2015-07-05T03:44:31.000Z

The problem in my own experience, is that PLAYER_CLOSE does not distinguish between whether I approached the moose, or if the moose randomly approached me. Irl walking toward it would freak it out, sure. I’ve entered it’s personal space / territory. A moose wandering into my territory clearly wasn’t concerned about me right up until it decided it was killdestroy time and it immediately closes the gap. So that feels a little backwards.

Having a PLAYER_RETREAT radius to encourage calm state in moose would be a superb workaround! I like it.