# Petition to change moose description

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [July 4, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979 "2015-07-04T00:07:35Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 16\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![Random\_dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4da419/32.png) [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)\
**Post date:** [July 4, 2015, 9:19pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979/21 "2015-07-04T21:19:52Z")

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I agree, bear level. I don’t know how complex it would be to make seasonal morale a thing.

EDIT: And now I am become Derp, destroyer of worlds. [https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/12837](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/12837)

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 12:23am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979/22 "2015-07-05T00:23:37Z")

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[quote=“voskhod, post:17, topic:9979”]Thats only a solution when you have unobstructed view, and at day.  
What if you want to go through a forest where at any moment you can round a tree and find yourself only 10 tiles away from a moose that instantly aggro’s on you?  
What if you want to go through an area at night and dont even see the moose until they’re right up in your face?[/quote]  
Yes, wandering around with low visibility after the world has ended needs to be a safe, enjoyable experience. I’ll get right on that \s

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**Author:** ![Random\_dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4da419/32.png) [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)\
**Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 12:25am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979/23 "2015-07-05T00:25:11Z")

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Is 10 less morale seriously that big a break in realism? I did not expect a minor change to provoke smartassed remarks about whether or not mooseseses are implacable terminators. .\_.

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**Author:** ![Shopkeeper](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/shopkeeper/32/453_2.png) [@Shopkeeper](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Shopkeeper)\
**Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 2:09am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979/24 "2015-07-05T02:09:26Z")

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[quote=“voskhod, post:17, topic:9979”]Thats only a solution when you have unobstructed view, and at day.  
What if you want to go through a forest where at any moment you can round a tree and find yourself only 10 tiles away from a moose that instantly aggro’s on you?  
What if you want to go through an area at night and dont even see the moose until they’re right up in your face?[/quote]  
I’ve walked through forests at night and run smack dab into moose while stumbling around without getting brutally mauled immediately. In any of those cases I tend to turn around and walk (or run) the other way. Honestly, 10 tiles on an open field is a good stand off distance with moose in my experience, even with animal discord putting me at a disadvantage they don’t often charge out of the blue. The only time a moose has deliberately aggro’d on me that I can recall is when I witnessed an NPC shoot one with a crossbow and proceed to get brutalized, before my shelter NPC follower open fired as well and got pulped, then it came for me. Thankfully a heavily wounded moose and a survivor with a knife spear make for a week’s supply of moose steak.

Going by this thread it seems like I’m an exception to the rule here, but moose have really been no more prevalent a source of death for my early game survivors then the countless other ways you can get yourself killed in the Cataclysm.

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**Author:** ![Random\_dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4da419/32.png) [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)\
**Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 2:13am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979/25 "2015-07-05T02:13:40Z")

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The real issue is once one GETS pissed off, damn near nothing in the world will calm it down.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 2:44am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979/26 "2015-07-05T02:44:18Z")

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> [@Random\_dragon](#):
>
> I did not expect a minor change to provoke smartassed remarks about whether or not mooseseses are implacable terminators. .\_.

If you don’t like smartassed comments you might consider not making them in the first place.

> [@chaosvolt](#):
>
> I made the obvious suggestion in response to a complaint that moose are, as usual, implacable terminators.

> [@Random\_dragon](#):
>
> The real issue is once one GETS pissed off, damn near nothing in the world will calm it down.

So my counter-proposal, accelerated calming if there are no targets in some distance, no idea what kind of distance that should be.

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**Author:** ![Random\_dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4da419/32.png) [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)\
**Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 2:53am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979/27 "2015-07-05T02:53:46Z")

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Hmm. Understood. Sorry about that. @\_@

> [@Kevin Granade](#):
>
> So my counter-proposal, accelerated calming if there are no targets in some distance, no idea what kind of distance that should be.

And hmm, not entirely sure either, though…ah. it has PLAYER\_CLOSE as an anger trigger, right? What’s the distance on that? So long as the trigger value isn’t something like melee range, that could be a could value to use. Failing that, I’m guessing a minimum of 10-12 tiles, if that’s larger.

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**Author:** ![Pthalocy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/22d042/32.png) [@Pthalocy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Pthalocy)\
**Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 3:44am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979/28 "2015-07-05T03:44:31Z")

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The problem in my own experience, is that PLAYER\_CLOSE does not distinguish between whether I approached the moose, or if the moose randomly approached me. Irl walking toward it would freak it out, sure. I’ve entered it’s personal space / territory. A moose wandering into my territory clearly wasn’t concerned about me right up until it decided it was killdestroy time and it immediately closes the gap. So that feels a little backwards.

Having a PLAYER\_RETREAT radius to encourage calm state in moose would be a superb workaround! I like it.

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**Author:** ![Dlightfull](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/f6c823/32.png) [@Dlightfull](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Dlightfull)\
**Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 10:53am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979/29 "2015-07-05T10:53:51Z")

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I have a feeling that some of the people in this thread have not encountered wild animals in their life at all.

They’re fucking deadly IRL, trust me. Heck, even tame animals as dogs and cats can be deadly.

You just have to stay away from wild animals, even if they’re not predators. Wandering through the forest at night is a recipe for disaster. If anything, as it is right now, Cataclysm forests are way too peaceful.

I’ve had my share of deaths to moose, but it was all my fault. Their bloodthirstiness could be toned down a bit, i agree, but things are way to easy as it is. With a couple of points in archery and the most basic bow, the moose becomes game.

Be prepared when you get outside.

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**Author:** ![Coolthulhu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/coolthulhu/32/2446_2.png) [@Coolthulhu](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Coolthulhu)\
**Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 11:13am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979/30 "2015-07-05T11:13:53Z")

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> [@Random\_dragon](#):
>
> And hmm, not entirely sure either, though…ah. it has PLAYER\_CLOSE as an anger trigger, right? What’s the distance on that?

5 tiles, but every visible non-friendly creature gets proced once, meaning surrounded moose will get mad instantly.

> [@Pthalocy](#):
>
> Having a PLAYER\_RETREAT radius to encourage calm state in moose would be a superb workaround! I like it.

I’m not sure if I understand your idea correctly, but:  
A pseudo-fear effect that would cause the moose to act as if scared if the closest non-friendly creature is within x tiles, but only if the moose is not mad.

That could work, but it would make them quite timid, only ever attacking if pre-triggered by zombies or if surprised. It would not change the way a set off moose acts, though.

Alternative interpretation:  
A PLAYER\_CLOSE placate effect with larger radius. Basically,

```auto
"placate" : ["PLAYER_MODERATELY_CLOSE"]
```

This one would have a negative effect of making “stared down” moose more timid than ones that got surprised, but it would give a sprinting player a chance to calm down the moose and make it stop charging.

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**Author:** ![Pthalocy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/22d042/32.png) [@Pthalocy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Pthalocy)\
**Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979/31 "2015-07-05T16:24:18Z")

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Your second idea there is more what I had in mind Coolthulu. I dunno what drugs I was on with that idea I spat out earlier, my wording confuses me now.

And yes, I agree, wildlife is fucking dangerous irl. I remember the time my brother and I had to go out to the car while at a cottage in the thousand islands. You can’t park your car within a certain distance of the cottage due to protected wilderness/lack of road. So we walk for like 10 minutes out of the woods, into more woods, and finally to the car.

I shit you not there was a four point buck that just appeared out of nowhere. We were there first, it was there SUDDENLY AND WITHOUT WARNING. The only reason nobody got fucked up after it started stamping its hooves threateningly was because my brother calmly leaned into the car’s driver seat and hit the horn.

So… yeah. I guess that was technically off-topic save for defending myself, but yeah. If anything, my stance on moose aggro remains unchanged, but deer could probably do with the occasional slightly-angrier one?

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 7:21pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979/32 "2015-07-05T19:21:18Z")

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> [@Coolthulhu](#):
>
> [quote=“Random\_dragon, post:27, topic:9979”]And hmm, not entirely sure either, though…ah. it has PLAYER\_CLOSE as an anger trigger, right? What’s the distance on that?

5 tiles, but every visible non-friendly creature gets proced once, meaning surrounded moose will get mad instantly.

> [@Pthalocy](#):
>
> Having a PLAYER\_RETREAT radius to encourage calm state in moose would be a superb workaround! I like it.

I’m not sure if I understand your idea correctly, but:  
A pseudo-fear effect that would cause the moose to act as if scared if the closest non-friendly creature is within x tiles, but only if the moose is not mad.

That could work, but it would make them quite timid, only ever attacking if pre-triggered by zombies or if surprised. It would not change the way a set off moose acts, though.[/quote]  
I was thinking something like (pseudo-python-code):

```auto
aggroed = false;
for creature in PLAYER_CLOSE:
    if creature is hostile:
        aggroed = true
        anger += something

if !aggroed
    anger -= something
```

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Random\_dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4da419/32.png) [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)\
**Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 7:22pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979/33 "2015-07-05T19:22:36Z")

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All this is a tad beyond my ability to cobble together, sadly. I’m guessing I should close my PR. ;A;

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**Author:** ![CosmicKobal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/977dab/32.png) [@CosmicKobal](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/CosmicKobal)\
**Post date:** [July 5, 2015, 10:20pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979/34 "2015-07-05T22:20:22Z")

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This is a bit off topic as well, but what about a differentiation between a Doe and a Buck? the doe would keep the current stats, but the Buck would be more aggressive. possibly around the same level as a wolf, but only if you get into close proximity. basically, if it thinks that you’re threatening it, then it will try to fight you off, otherwise it will just eye you warily

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**Author:** ![Pthalocy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/22d042/32.png) [@Pthalocy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Pthalocy)\
**Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 2:08am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979/35 "2015-07-06T02:08:27Z")

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[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:32, topic:9979”]I was thinking something like (pseudo-python-code):

[code]  
aggroed = false;  
for creature in PLAYER\_CLOSE:  
if creature is hostile:  
aggroed = true  
anger += something

if !aggroed  
anger -= something  
[/code][/quote]

So it’d trigger aggro when you’re too close, but so long as it’s aggro’d then its anger would decay until it reached a point of non-aggression again. Cooooooool. The if-hostile is a nice catch, it’d stop moose from rampaging squirrels and the like, and only sometimes engage with wolves. I assume players would always be considered hostile?

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**Author:** ![Random\_dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4da419/32.png) [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)\
**Post date:** [July 6, 2015, 2:10am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979/36 "2015-07-06T02:10:29Z")

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I still have no idea what to do with that PR. \<\_\<

[Previous page](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/petition-to-change-moose-description/9979.md?page=1)