# Personal opnion - explosions are overbuffed, with two examples (UPDATED - SEE NEW LONG POST BY ME)

**URL:** https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/personal-opnion-explosions-are-overbuffed-with-two-examples-updated-see-new-long-post-by-me/16058
**Category:** The Bunker
**Created:** [August 1, 2018, 4:28pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/personal-opnion-explosions-are-overbuffed-with-two-examples-updated-see-new-long-post-by-me/16058 "2018-08-01T16:28:59Z")
**Posts on this page:** 1
**Showing post:** 29

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### Author: ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)
#### Post date: [August 4, 2018, 5:08am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/personal-opnion-explosions-are-overbuffed-with-two-examples-updated-see-new-long-post-by-me/16058/29 "2018-08-04T05:08:10Z")

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> [@SirPendrak](#):
>
> Lets start with ammo boiling example. Its no longer case of one or few huge damage spikes when 50 9mm ammo explodes 1 tile away, now its about a dozen hits, and each seems to be a little stronger than 9mm shot fired from average gun.

Need to adjust this back down, these should simply not be that dangerous.

> [@SirPendrak](#):
>
> At 8 tiles range while wearing heavy survivor suit, you might be lucky to survive explosion, but lethality seems to be above 50%.

Does heavy survivor suit have 100% coverage? If it does this seems problematic.

> [@SirPendrak](#):
>
> Light power armor at range of 5 tiles - very high lethality, above 75%

This definitely needs adjusting, light power armor should be totally immune to these fragments (though the blast is another story).

In short, I’ll adjust the damage vs number of fragments numbers some more, more fragments but less damage from each, that will nerf fragments relative to armor.

> [@SirPendrak](#):
>
> its completely broken scale of range!

We have the same problem within firearms, the variation in range is much higher than the amount of range we have available. Short term, this is irreconcileable. Please understand, within our constraints, we have NO way to make things totally consistent, all we can do is pick which things are or are not consistent.  
The reason grenades and other explosives have such long ranges is that their effectiveness is based on their range. With guns it’s a matter of comparative reach, but with explosives, longer range means killing more things. A single grenade thrown into a tight group of zombies can kill as many as 100 of them, nerfing their range to match gun engagement ranges means grenades aren’t as good at what they do as they are supposed to be. This is a much bigger problem than the ranges not matching.

> [@SirPendrak](#):
>
> On open field you meet a bandit armed with m4a1

This isnt something dda is built to handle, full stop. Dda is mostly built around engagements with masses of attackers you greatly outrange.

> [@SirPendrak](#):
>
> It means if grenade lands on you, and you imidietly react by running away, it takes about 2 seconds to get away from 100% death sentence.

That does not sound right, after some looking around, it looks like world class 20m sprint times are around 3 seconds:

> **[Sprint Test Scores](https://www.topendsports.com/testing/results/sprint-tests.htm)**
>
> Guide to record sprint or speed test score results of athletes

That might sound like it supports your point, except for a few issues.

1. These sprint times are based on being ready and waiting to start sprinting, which minimizes reaction times.
2. Times based on 100% unencumbered athletes, with ideal running shoes on an ideal running surface. Almost no dda survivors are fully unencumbered.
3. Times based on athletes who are specifically training for this event under controlled circumstances. Dda survivors aren’t doing specialized training for 20m sprints.

Basically, you dont run from grenades, it doesnt work. Your only valid options are getting behind nearby shelter or throwing the grenade, both of which are feasible in the game.

> [@SirPendrak](#):
>
> you can outrange milspec turrets on flat ground with fresh unskilled character,

This is mostly irrelevant.  
Once fragments are nerfed vs armor, using grenades against turrets is going to be terribly ineffective (actually I’ll add that to my testing).  
Grenades are super valuable, using them on turrets is going to be a poor use of them.

> [@SirPendrak](#):
>
> It doesnt change fact, that you can massacre shaggots,

You can’t massacre them unless you have a large stockpile of grenades, at which point yea, you have a lot of resources, so you can kill stuff.

> [@SirPendrak](#):
>
> Right now, if a tough zombie is hit for a total of 100 DMG, it imidietly telports to ground, giving no more resistance to the cloud.

That’s not how it works, monsters do block significant amounts of fragments, 4 regular-sized zombies in a row will block enough fragments to save a 5th, larger monsters like brutes and hulks block a much larger proportion of fragments.

> [@SirPendrak](#):
>
> I am talking about scenarios when a soldier covers a grenade with his body, to save his friends nearby.

There’s no scenario where this is going to happen in the game, zombies don’t know to do it, and NPCs are unlikely to be coded to do this.

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