# Non-bionic bionic equivalents

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/non-bionic-bionic-equivalents/13400>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [February 13, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/non-bionic-bionic-equivalents/13400 "2017-02-13T20:32:30Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 2\
**Page:** 2

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 4:21am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/non-bionic-bionic-equivalents/13400/21 "2017-02-18T04:21:22Z")

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> [@deoxy](#):
>
> First, I would like to acknowledge the value of your time

Thanks for keeping things positive, even if I disagree, I value your input, if I didn’t I’d just ignore it 😃

tl;dr “power lifting suit” and a wood-burning power generator are both totally reasonable (the generator would even be craftable). The rest of the suggestions not so much.

> [@deoxy](#):
>
> [quote=“Kevin Granade, post:18, topic:13400”]The CBM angle is irrelevant and just derails your suggestion into arguments about existing cbms.

The CBM angle has to do with how immersion-breaking some of them are to not have the equivalent non-CBM item - CBMs would be the niche, not the norm, for most things. Think watches and Internal Chronometer CBM.[/quote]  
Read what I said last post again, CBMs do not exist in the same reality as the rest of the items, if that’s terribly inconsistent, the resolution is generally going to be removing the CBM, not adding item equivalents. The existence of a CBM is NEVER going to be a sufficient rationale for the addition of an item that does the same thing, the item has to justify its own existence.

> [@deoxy](#):
>
> [quote=“Kevin Granade, post:18, topic:13400”][quote=“deoxy, post:17, topic:13400”]- Joint Torsion Ratchet as a suit? Check. (Lesser versions already exist)

Lesser versions are fine, but are also mostly useless. You can make a perpetual-ish watch or similar, but as far as I know that’s the only practical application of this kind of thing. If you have a reference to a product that demonstrates otherwise, feel free to link it.[/quote]

Perpetual “self-winding” watches have existed for years, fully self\_contained.

What you’re thinking of might be something more like this:

> **[Power Generating Shoe](https://www.instructables.com/Power-Generating-Shoe/?%5B%2Fquote%5D=)**
>
> Power Generating Shoe: This Instructable will show you how to create a shoe that generates electricity. It does this by using your energy when you walk and converts it into electricity. If you've ever lost power to your cell phone in the...

Need a little critical thinking here, that’s a fake. You can’t just attach an alternator to a usb cable and charge a smartphone with it.

More directly relevant would be links like these:

> [@deoxy](#):
>
> [https://www.element14.com/community/groups/energy-harvesting-solutions/blog/2012/12/20/different-approach--still-energy-harvesting](https://www.element14.com/community/groups/energy-harvesting-solutions/blog/2012/12/20/different-approach--still-energy-harvesting)

I read this and it’s pointless, everything is either the power level of a self-winding watch or not portable, skipping all but the last one.

[quote=“deoxy, post:19, topic:13400”]In particular, though, is this last link, which talks about the Bionic Energy Harvester (which is what I was remembering).

> **[Harvesting Energy From Humans](https://www.popsci.com/environment/article/2009-01/harvesting-energy-humans/)**
>
> The human body contains enormous quantities of energy. In fact, the average adult has as much energy stored in fat as a one-ton battery. That energy fuels our everyday activities, but what if those actions could in turn run the electronic devices we...

From a device on only one knee, “The prototype, which Donelan unveiled last February (that would be 2008), turns a one-minute walk into enough current for a half-hour cellphone conversation.”

So yeah, that’s a lot of juice, actually, and that’s only the prototype, only on one knee, and that was 9 years ago.[/quote]  
It was 9 years ago, and there’s nothing on the market, and a “half-hour cellphone conversation” is not a unit of energy, this is why I was asking for a product, not PopSci articles.

> [@deoxy](#):
>
> [quote=“Kevin Granade, post:18, topic:13400”][quote=“deoxy, post:17, topic:13400”]- Strength enhancement suit? Already exists - power requirements are the only thing keeping it from mass production.

As I understand it the state of the art is tens of lbs of carrying capacity, we could add that but it’s also more trouble than its worth.[/quote]

Your understanding is several years out of date:

Here’s a full-sized suit, which lifts 200 pounds easily and for as long as the power lasts: [https://youtu.be/-UpxsrlLbpU](https://youtu.be/-UpxsrlLbpU)

That’s from 2010.[/quote]  
“5 years” from deployment of a tethered version and “another 5 years” from deployment of an untethered version. That’s roughly the same state it was in 10 years ago.

Correction taken, I was thinking of the soft exoskeletons, yea a stripped down powersuit works.

> [@deoxy](#):
>
> [quote=“Kevin Granade, post:18, topic:13400”][quote=“deoxy, post:17, topic:13400”]- stand alone Aero-evaporator? Already exists.

Need a source, there are various devices that capture potable water, but I don’t know of any that do so productively from air. In nearly every case a raincatcher is better.[/quote]

In the area of US north east, that is certainly true.[/quote]  
It’s generally true, areas that don’t have enough rain for raincatchers to work also don’t have enough ambient humidity for a condenser to work.

> [@deoxy](#):
>
> That said, for a free-standing device, I’m no handy-man, but I could MAKE a device that produced water from air with any cold source, a means of moving water around (like rubber tubing), and a bucket to catch it in. The science is so easy we do it all the time by accident (that’s why coasters exist). I should be able to make a continuous water-from-air device from a minifridge that uses the same slot and power, but holds less (or even none, if you want to be harsh about it). Kids do that sort of thing for science fairs in high school or even junior high.

I didn’t say you can’t make one, I said they’re pointless because the alternatives are infinitely better, the only reason the CBM is worthwhile is it’s unrealistically good and portable.

> [@deoxy](#):
>
> That the sort of “pointing out real-world tech that accomplishes some of the same goals as bionics” that you were after?

No, it’s a bunch of PopSci speculation and impractical toys. There’s a reason these things aren’t common, they don’t work very well and alternatives are far superior.

> [@deoxy](#):
>
> Also, the “external furnace” could be as simple as a steam engine that you burn stuff in to power it - as long as it’s attached to a battery that can capture the charge, we’re good to go. A good old-fashioned windmill would be good, too, but that’s obviously beyond the scope of “non-bionic bionics”, eh? 🙂

That would work.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![deoxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@deoxy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/deoxy)\
**Post date:** [February 18, 2017, 6:27am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/non-bionic-bionic-equivalents/13400/22 "2017-02-18T06:27:27Z")

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> [@Kevin Granade](#):
>
> [quote=“deoxy, post:19, topic:13400”]First, I would like to acknowledge the value of your time

Thanks for keeping things positive, even if I disagree, I value your input, if I didn’t I’d just ignore it :D[/quote]

Thanks! I just don’t want to be the guy complaining that the free ice cream doesn’t come with sprinkles, and it ticks of the ice cream guy so much that he closes up shop…

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:21, topic:13400”][quote=“deoxy, post:19, topic:13400”]What you’re thinking of might be something more like this:

> **[Power Generating Shoe](https://www.instructables.com/Power-Generating-Shoe/?%5B%2Fquote%5D=)**
>
> Power Generating Shoe: This Instructable will show you how to create a shoe that generates electricity. It does this by using your energy when you walk and converts it into electricity. If you've ever lost power to your cell phone in the...

Need a little critical thinking here, that’s a fake. You can’t just attach an alternator to a usb cable and charge a smartphone with it.[/quote]

That was only the first link of a BUNCH of them, but here’s the one that looks the most “legit” if you’re worried about fakery:

> **[This kid just invented a shoe that can charge your cell phone](https://www.dailydot.com/debug/phone-charger-shoe/)**
>
> So you'll never have to worry about leaving your iPhone charger behind at the office again.

Note that yes, it takes a while to produce large amounts of charge (“roughly eight hours of running or jogging to fully charge a lithium ion battery”), but that’s a) one shoe, and b) made by hand by a 15 year old.

Here’s a starter on a commercial version:

> **[SolePower charges smartphones by harnessing walking power](https://www.cnet.com/science/solepower-charges-smartphones-by-harnessing-walking-power/)**
>
> Looking to solve the issue of a dead phone battery and no power outlet in sight, a new invention on Kickstarter says it can capture, generate, and store power within a shoe insole.

“A two and a half mile walk generates enough energy for a solid smartphone charge.” This is alpha-level development, and again, only one shoe.

This is the kind of thing that goes from “fringe” to “built in to everything you own” with one breakthrough. In 20 years, barring a revolution in wireless recharging that make it unnecessary, this is going to be everywhere, just for the convenience.

I think the problem is that you’re overestimating how much power it takes to do things. The dance floor thing I linked? “One footstep can only provide enough electrical current to light two 60-watt bulbs for one second.” That would be enough for a strong LED flashlight bulb for about a minute… from one step.

Sure, your laser rifle needs 3-5 hours of running for one shot, but your flashlight and mp3 player could both run for as long as you walk, with enough power to spare to power your hotplate to make dinner tonight. That’s significant - the only things way out of the range we’re talking about are laser weapons (and other such things), welders, and electric vehicles… and those SHOULD be way out of range of this stuff and require a more serious power supply.

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