# No NPCs (almost)

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131>\
**Category:** The Bunker\
**Created:** [December 13, 2016, 9:12am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131 "2016-12-13T09:12:21Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Nibelung44](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nibelung44/32/587_2.png) [@Nibelung44](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Nibelung44)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 9:12am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/1 "2016-12-13T09:12:21Z")

</div>

Hi,

I’m now in Summer of year 1, I have mapped some portion of the map, something like 2 towns and the surrounding. This is not big, but should be enough to spot NPCs. But I have yet to encounter any NPCs, except 2 bandits in a cabin. I don’t get why I see no one, because my options were to have a lot of NPCs. Is it only lack of luck?

Here are my option, from the JSON:  
{“info”:“If true, the game will spawn static NPC at the start of the game, requires world reset.”,“default”:“Default: False”,“name”:“STATIC\_NPC”,“value”:“true”}  
{“info”:“If true, the game will randomly spawn NPC during gameplay.”,“default”:“Default: False”,“name”:“RANDOM\_NPC”,“value”:“true”}  
{“info”:“A scaling factor that determines density of dynamic NPC spawns.”,“default”:“Default: 0,10 - Min: 0,00, Max: 100,00”,“name”:“NPC\_DENSITY”,“value”:“0,50”}

Any idea?  
I’m checking very often the overland map, normally you can see the NPC symbols 3 symbols away.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![KliPeH](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/klipeh/32/11298_2.png) [@KliPeH](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KliPeH)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 11:17am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/2 "2016-12-13T11:17:43Z")

</div>

> [@Nibelung44](#):
>
> {“info”:“A scaling factor that determines density of dynamic NPC spawns.”,“default”:“Default: 0,10 - Min: 0,00, Max: 100,00”,“name”:“NPC\_DENSITY”,“value”:“0,50”}

I’m pretty sure before the last experimental update to these settings, the default factor was 1.00. People often brought it down to 0.30-0.50 so the game was even remotely playable. It’s 0.10 by default now, but I see you bumped yours up to the regular standard pre-update. Bump it up even higher and you should start seeing NPCs more often (the fact you saw bandits pretty much confirms NPCs CAN spawn in your world, right?).

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Nibelung44](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nibelung44/32/587_2.png) [@Nibelung44](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Nibelung44)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 11:40am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/3 "2016-12-13T11:40:52Z")

</div>

Oh ok! That’s an informative answer… I’m still under the ‘norm’, so to speak. I’ll bump it to 1.5 and see if NPCs are spawned using this setting in my current world, I put sometime into my char already.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![BorkBorkGoesTheCode](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/borkborkgoesthecode/32/2343_2.png) [@BorkBorkGoesTheCode](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/BorkBorkGoesTheCode)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 6:05pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/4 "2016-12-13T18:05:35Z")

</div>

I usually play with 5.00 to 50 NPC spawn rates. It’s not that bad, until a thieving horde of NPCs spawns.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Nibelung44](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nibelung44/32/587_2.png) [@Nibelung44](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Nibelung44)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 6:11pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/5 "2016-12-13T18:11:42Z")

</div>

do they steal from cellars and caves? Do they still bypass traps?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![BorkBorkGoesTheCode](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/borkborkgoesthecode/32/2343_2.png) [@BorkBorkGoesTheCode](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/BorkBorkGoesTheCode)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 6:38pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/6 "2016-12-13T18:38:01Z")

</div>

> [@Nibelung44](#):
>
> do they steal from cellars and caves? Do they still bypass traps?

1. Sometimes.

2. I haven’t used traps recently; since no NPCs have approached my garage base my ancient beartrap trap remains untested.

I’m going to fire up a recent experimental to test the NPC menace.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![BorkBorkGoesTheCode](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/borkborkgoesthecode/32/2343_2.png) [@BorkBorkGoesTheCode](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/BorkBorkGoesTheCode)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 6:58pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/7 "2016-12-13T18:58:55Z")

</div>

First impressions of NPCs (50.00 spawn):

My mere presence causes every NPC nearby to flock to my location and beg assistance. Could get annoying after a while. Maybe unmet NPCs could ignore my character sometimes.

NPC violence is subdued compared to older experimentals. There are more violent NPCs, but they are marked on the world map sometimes. They would make good boss monsters if AI were improved.

Why did you crawl through the evac center window, guy? You could see two unlocked doors nearby.

The number of freeform quests needs to be expanded.

Lag. Not as unplayable as some other games, but present.

Quest: The Eater Of The Dead is common.

Conclusion: NPCs are still an unfinished, entertaining chaos.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Greiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8797f3/32.png) [@Greiger](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Greiger)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 6:59pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/8 "2016-12-13T18:59:38Z")

</div>

From what I saw from just random observation they can go around them pretty easily. A neutral NPC followed me into that one house with the garage that’s trapped all to hell and avoided them all. Have to admit that my own character had detected the traps themselves with little difficulty. Never saw them step on a tile that had a trap that I knew of.

So either the npcs avoid all traps, they know of all traps the player knows of, or they detect them just like the PC does and those traps are too easy to detect to mean anything.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![BorkBorkGoesTheCode](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/borkborkgoesthecode/32/2343_2.png) [@BorkBorkGoesTheCode](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/BorkBorkGoesTheCode)\
**Post date:** [December 13, 2016, 7:01pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/9 "2016-12-13T19:01:39Z")

</div>

I recall an NPC being blown up by landmine, but that could have been collateral damage from zombie.

NPCs need some Sims-ish motivations and socials. I’ve been planning to add something like that when I gain enough skill.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Nibelung44](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nibelung44/32/587_2.png) [@Nibelung44](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Nibelung44)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 7:39am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/10 "2016-12-14T07:39:57Z")

</div>

Well BorkBork, if you test with a NPC spawn rate of 50x, having a chaos and lag on the map is kinda expected, right? 😉

I’m wondering about stealing NPCs if your own friendly NPCs on guards can be the solution, they should shoot the intruders, right?

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![KliPeH](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/klipeh/32/11298_2.png) [@KliPeH](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KliPeH)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 10:37am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/11 "2016-12-14T10:37:03Z")

</div>

[quote=“Nibelung44, post:10, topic:13131”]I’m wondering about stealing NPCs if your own friendly NPCs on guards can be the solution, they should shoot the intruders, right?[/quote]Here’s the thing though; those dynamic NPCs who steal your stuff are not considered “intruders”. They’re neutral, and are technically “merely scavenging” your things to survive. They aren’t hostile, so your guards won’t shoot them. It’s not like you can say “hey, this stuff’s mine, leave it alone”; that’s not a thing yet (no pickup zones only affect green companion NPCs). What’s worse is that YOU, as the player, know they’re stealing valuable goods, but your character doesn’t - he views them as innocent bystanders and gets the ‘Killed Innocent’ morale penalty when you take action against them, resulting in the inability to craft/read/build anything without external help for 3 days in a row.

I really wish this was fixed already. As it stands, you get seriously screwed for protecting your property. Some characters can afford to do it, but some early-game ones may not be able to afford to lose so much morale and HP. They’ll be forced to stand there watching their items get looted and taken away from them. If they attack, the NPCs even have the audacity to attack back - not like they were trespassing or anything, right? At least make them flee or something, make it so that when you get them to low HP they agree to give you your stuff back. Make it a more reasonable challenge, or add flavor text to the NPCs as they are now so it feels more realistic (" [6%] Don’t touch my stuff!" =\> “Really? What are you gonna do about it?”).

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Greiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8797f3/32.png) [@Greiger](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Greiger)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 4:19pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/12 "2016-12-14T16:19:04Z")

</div>

I always threaten them to leave. (the red options) that has a really good chance of turning them red, if it’s not a guarantee and then kill them. No morale penalty if they are red.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![KliPeH](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/klipeh/32/11298_2.png) [@KliPeH](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KliPeH)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 4:35pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/13 "2016-12-14T16:35:46Z")

</div>

> [@Greiger](#):
>
> I always threaten them to leave. (the red options) that has a really good chance of turning them red, if it’s not a guarantee and then kill them. No morale penalty if they are red.

How do you do that? Do you have to chat with them before they get the chance to talk to you? They always tell me to drop my weapon and put my hands up or whatnot, I don’t even have a chance to respond.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Greiger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8797f3/32.png) [@Greiger](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Greiger)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 7:30pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/14 "2016-12-14T19:30:05Z")

</div>

Oh in that case they are straight up mugging you. You either are getting all your stuff taken or yer in for a fight anyway. Choose the red option to fight, (or with enough speech skill deescalate them down to neutral.)

I was talking about otherwise neutral npcs taking all your stuff from the floor. In that case you ideally see them beelining to your stuff and tell them to buzz off that turns them red but in my experience they are running away. Or if they already grabbed some things, you tell them to buzz off and then kill them before they can get away. No morale penalty because they were red, and you get your stuff back.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![KliPeH](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/klipeh/32/11298_2.png) [@KliPeH](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KliPeH)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 8:08pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/15 "2016-12-14T20:08:39Z")

</div>

> [@Greiger](#):
>
> I was talking about otherwise neutral npcs taking all your stuff from the floor. In that case you ideally see them beelining to your stuff and tell them to buzz off that turns them red but in my experience they are running away. Or if they already grabbed some things, you tell them to buzz off and then kill them before they can get away. No morale penalty because they were red, and you get your stuff back.

I actually never got the option to tell them off after the initial mugging/quest dialogue. If you get the quest dialogue you can either choose to listen to them or tell them you’re not interested, but talking to them afterwards won’t do anything (unless that was changed in one of the recent experimentals). NPCs never go for your stuff before they see you; as soon as they do they’ll home in on you and try to talk to you, which either results in a mugging or a quest. I did test my theory, though: if you talk with them before they talk with you, YOU get to either mug them or tell them off, so that’s always good to know. I’ve already tested this twice and it worked both times. Basically, catch them off-guard by talking to them first, before they get close enough to talk to you.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Nibelung44](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nibelung44/32/587_2.png) [@Nibelung44](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Nibelung44)\
**Post date:** [December 14, 2016, 9:45pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/16 "2016-12-14T21:45:50Z")

</div>

Why don’t you put your stuff behind:  
a) a bookshelf, that has to be either smashed or grabbed to open the path  
b) a trap (that you need to disarm to get to your items)  
c) a friendly NPC on guard, that will remain in the same spot 24/24 (well, rotate him with another so he can sleep)

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Aabbcc](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/43a26b/32.png) [@Aabbcc](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Aabbcc)\
**Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 10:53am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/17 "2016-12-15T10:53:17Z")

</div>

[quote=“Nibelung44, post:16, topic:13131”]c) a friendly NPC on guard, that will remain in the same spot 24/24 (well, rotate him with another so he can sleep)[/quote]No you don’t. You add a cot on the same tile, then park a hamster wheel standing bicycle with an alternator on top so he can guard your stuff, sleep, and power the lights for your crafting.  
Cage and rat mutation optional.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Nibelung44](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/nibelung44/32/587_2.png) [@Nibelung44](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Nibelung44)\
**Post date:** [December 15, 2016, 12:13pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/18 "2016-12-15T12:13:46Z")

</div>

Wow!!!

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![TheWumpus](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/thewumpus/32/263_2.png) [@TheWumpus](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/TheWumpus)\
**Post date:** [December 19, 2016, 10:12pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/19 "2016-12-19T22:12:06Z")

</div>

On the rare times I do play with NPCs I tend to view them as three things:

1. Zombie bait
2. Food
3. Pack mules

Please note that pack mule overlaps with both other categories so when I grow weary of them, or they annoy me, or for hilarity, they become one or the other.

I had BAD experiences with NPCs starting in 0.A and ever since then I pretty much shoot on sight. The psychopath perk is probably the best in the game.

---

<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![DeclanFrost](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e5b9ba/32.png) [@DeclanFrost](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/DeclanFrost)\
**Post date:** [December 23, 2016, 10:56pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131/20 "2016-12-23T22:56:21Z")

</div>

[quote=“Aabbcc, post:17, topic:13131”][quote=“Nibelung44, post:16, topic:13131”]c) a friendly NPC on guard, that will remain in the same spot 24/24 (well, rotate him with another so he can sleep)[/quote]No you don’t. You add a cot on the same tile, then park a hamster wheel standing bicycle with an alternator on top so he can guard your stuff, sleep, and power the lights for your crafting.  
Cage and rat mutation optional.[/quote]  
They ride control vehicles now? When was this a thing?

[Next page](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/no-npcs-almost/13131.md?page=2)