New repair discussion

[Random_dragon]

Maybe.

Also, in the case of hazmat suits and other things, it might make sense for a failed attempt reducing its FUNCTIONALITY, but not destroying it outright. But this would be a bit odd to implement.

[TheKobold]

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:95, topic:11181”]So no damage on most repairs.
Except when “rescuing” items from 3-4 damage.

But then how should material (rag/leather) consumption be realized? Clothing gets ripped and not just at the seams.
Random chance to consume rags on failure? Random chance to consume it on success (scaling down with skill)?

As for reinforcing: I’d like to make reinforcing something that can’t be taken for granted. I’d add a strict requirement “you need x skill to reinforce this” with “x” being dependent on something with the item, like the recipe used to craft it (10 if uncraftable?).

If someone could provide at least 3 examples in the form of:
[dexterity - tailoring - expected thread consumption - expected rag consumption]
It would all be easier to balance[/quote]

These sound like reasonable solutions. For material consumption maybe a lvl 2 rip and higher uses a patch/rag since it likely to be a hole and not just a torn seam or rip. The random chance is good to throw in there too.

I was thinking a straight skill requirment for stuff like refitting and reinforcing but i like the ideal of attaching it to the lvl requirment for making it.
Maybe something like:

Refitting = crafting lvl requirment -2
reinforcing = crafting lvl requirment -1

Still leaves the issue of number of attempts. Maybe im missing some insight into the mechanics but it seems after i hit lvl 4 some things just get fixed fitted and reinforced easily but some takes forever. Maybe its rng.

[Coolthulhu]

For material consumption maybe a lvl 2 rip and higher uses a patch/rag since it likely to be a hole and not just a torn seam or rip.

I’d rather avoid tying it closely to damage.
It’s not very realistic that items can only ever get holes after being torn first.
Due to the way damage system works, damage can “advance” only by one level at a time. Unless we want to change that, it would be a good idea to make lvl 1 damage consume resources too.

[TheKobold]

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:98, topic:11181”][/quote]
I’d rather avoid tying it closely to damage.
It’s not very realistic that items can only ever get holes after being torn first.
Due to the way damage system works, damage can “advance” only by one level at a time. Unless we want to change that, it would be a good idea to make lvl 1 damage consume resources too.
[/quote]

Sounds reasonable.

[pingpong]

I have a suggestion on the keys aspect, which would be a little more work: Add the option for keys to bind to menu options, preferably fixed (NOT numerical based on what’s available. instead of a->inventory arrow/key ->another inventory arrow/key->menu option like I’m some sort of spider, I could do a-item-item-menu option.

An example would be a (activate) -> B (item) -> h (item being acted on) -> q (menu option one). Similarly, I’d prefer to be able to choose, but not trigger, menu options that I can’t do for stuff like that, so I can move fixed distances. If I wanted to reinforce, I could always move down, say, once, if repair is the first option or whatever. “Repair until” could be a separate submenu if something gets too cluttered by the number of options.

I know not everyone has the same keyboard, but the default QWERTY layout could do qazwsx for six menu choices, all where my hand would be anyway. Add "Activate Menu Option"s keys to the keybinds and someone can customize.

[Labtop_215]

I personally don’t like the idea of an artificial “you don’t destroy/damage clothing when you repair it anymore” because it doesn’t make sense if the clothing you are repairing is really badly damaged, or if you are really stressed. You are dealing with the phreaking post apocalypse. Otherworldly nightmares could tear down the wall your hiding behind at any moment.

That’s something that will probably always be in the back of the mind of any survivor really.

Unless we want to say that positive moral may give a slight (read SMALL) boost in your chances of success, I don’t think it’s unreasonable that you will use more thread than necessary or that you might destroy a piece of armor that you where trying to re-enforce.

It adds tension, and encourages you to keep spares, or backups of your favorite equipment if you aren’t a nomad.

[bitcoinbastard]

Maybe we could introduce weighting into the success/failure equation. A piece of clothing’s quality tends toward a certain level, and moving the quality away from that level requires increasingly extreme RNG rolls? Add in some modifiers for tailor skill and clothing difficulty level, and it could fix some of the complaints about a relatively high level tailor destroying a mundane piece of clothing.

Example: Lets say clothing tends toward arbitrary quality level 5. You as an average level tailor begin working to reinforce an average difficulty piece of clothing with your average focus and average intelligence. (Magic handwaving of numbers for non-average values.) If you’re reinforcing/repairing a quality level 6 piece of clothing, you’ve got an RNG bias toward damaging it back down to level 5, but not too bad so you repaired it up to level 7. Trying to reinforce it again at level 7 makes the RNG bias toward damage that much greater, etc etc.

E: It’s IRL realistic too. If I’ve got a backpack with one of the straps half torn off, I’m reasonably sure I could try and reattach the strap and barring a low dice roll extreme brain fart, I wouldn’t make the backpack any worse than it already is, and the only thing I know about sewing is that you put the thread through the eye of the needle.

Likewise if I was to be handed a brand new piece of clothing and told to improve on it, chances are I’d just make it worse.

[ZoneWizard]

[quote=“Etherdreamer, post:6, topic:11181”]I don´t see the new repair system as bad, in fact I really love it how is right now, and is quick and simple and I dunno how easy was before because just being to play and the forums get the thread " Tailor skill gimped wtf".

Maybe I was a bit annoyed about how encumbrance give a simple fur patch from 0 to 15+ was like “wat” But right now seems you guys balance that and is just improving.

Also I am ok to have a chair and a table for working, an appropriate surface for work is like the real life, right?
Maybe you can fix a bit speeding the process if you are in a adequate condition like the table/chair situation / good light etc.

Nothing about making my stats/skills drop lower when I’m a high level tailor should make sense to have something that fits me as an improvement, go from 0 to 15 for one improvement. The item being worked on becomes neither fitting nor improved.

If anyone wants to know more, just read my tailoring nerfed thread. In short, not enough differentiating results when tailoring. 2 kinds of leather and small improvements. Whats the difference? Makes you either a tank or quick and nimble with some protection. Some people want one or the other…assuming you don’t go flatout naked.

[deoxy]

So, I’ve been running a single long-running survivor, and I generally start over and update at the same time, so I’m a little late to the party…

Anyway, now that I’ve tried it out, on the whole, I like it. Yes, it takes more thread, but before it took almost NO effort to have WAY too much thread so you never had to worry about it ever.

I have only 2 complaints:

• I can’t load up sinew/plant fiber/thread at the same time. They are functionally identical, so keeping them separate seems a little silly and annoying.

• skill level doesn’t seem to make NEARLY enough difference on success rates

Seriously, I’m at level 6 tailoring, and I can barely tell that I’m any better than I was at level 1. Skill books only go up to 8 on tailoring, so I’m pretty darn good, really - I should be able to tell the difference. Yes, still being able to fail is OK, and taking several attempts (and thus more thread) is also OK, and making reinforcing in particular pretty hard to do is OK with me, but the difference between low skill and high skill is currently negligible (as best I can tell). That’s bad.

[Coolthulhu]

[quote=“deoxy, post:104, topic:11181”]- skill level doesn’t seem to make NEARLY enough difference on success rates

Seriously, I’m at level 6 tailoring, and I can barely tell that I’m any better than I was at level 1.[/quote]

The chances are:
(5 + skill - difficulty)% for repair
(5 - (dexterity - tool quality) / 5)% for damage
Oops, that tool quality seems to have wrong sign - it actually makes repairs harder now

Difficulty is equal to item’s damage (1 for scratched, 4 for almost destroyed) or 4 if the item isn’t damaged and is being refitted/reinforced.

[deoxy]

[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:105, topic:11181”][quote=“deoxy, post:104, topic:11181”]- skill level doesn’t seem to make NEARLY enough difference on success rates

Seriously, I’m at level 6 tailoring, and I can barely tell that I’m any better than I was at level 1.[/quote]

The chances are:
(5 + skill - difficulty)% for repair
(5 - (dexterity - tool quality) / 5)% for damage
Oops, that tool quality seems to have wrong sign - it actually makes repairs harder now

Difficulty is equal to item’s damage (1 for scratched, 4 for almost destroyed) or 4 if the item isn’t damaged and is being refitted/reinforced.[/quote]

If those are accurate, they’re lousy. Seriously, at level 10 skill, I have a 14% chance to repair an item with 1 point of damage, and the chance to damage it doesn’t change with skill or difficulty at all, other than the repair chance happening first, maybe? Maybe if you took out tool quality I don’t even know what that is for tailoring) and put in difficulty, then it would be something…

For repair chance, something like (3-difficulty+skill)^2 % might better - at 0 skill and 1 damage, that gives exactly the same repair chance as your formula (4%), then it goes up quadratically from there (9%,16%,25%, etc) up to 100% at level 8 (level 9 for difficulty 2, 10 for 3, etc).

For damage, assuming that’s difficulty instead of tool quality, I would also add skill level or 2 * skill level in there (in the part that gets divided by 5).

Also, I would suggest making reinforcing count as level 5 for difficulty in success, but 0 for difficulty in damage.

[pisskop]

If you look at it from a ‘each attempt is a single isolated job’ then yes, I guess. It seems more like an attempt to create ‘jobs’ of variable length instead of a single operation that takes 5 minutes and X thread.

[deoxy]

If you look at it from a ‘each attempt is a single isolated job’ then yes, I guess. It seems more like an attempt to create ‘jobs’ of variable length instead of a single operation that takes 5 minutes and X thread.

No, I get that, and slight bumps in success rate should compound, etc, etc. Conceptually, it’s fine, but the specifics of it don’t give NEARLY enough improvement for skill increase (especially the damage chance, which should take skill level into account - a high skill should be MORE beneficial than a high dex).

[StopGamer]

Hm. Now I can repair-upgrade my broadsword with welding/integrated tools to ++. With what now I can make my swords better then normal?

[pisskop]

Oh? I havent even turned on integrated toolset. Kinda forgot it was there, since a toolbox is easy to carry and wrench/hacksaw even easier.

[eternalflame]

I am glad I picked 8 levels of tailoring to start with. I still had occasional damage while trying to repair my survivor duffel bag, before I dumped my wooden needle for some sweet tailor’s kit. Then again, it takes some impressive tailoring skill to make a survivor duffel bag.

At least I had a use for some of my early game thread/sinew/plant fiber for once. And I actually managed to reach 9 tailoring, which was a painful input grind before. Might be more now but I have moved on to power armour all day, every day.

[ZoneWizard]

What of intelligence? Does that apply to tailoring? I mean, what if my toon is super smart or dumb as a brick? I could just sew my shirt to my arm if my toon is high on something plus really stupid! 0_0

[Litppunk]

I just want out point out that I think someone forgot most some? languages start counting at 0 instead of 1. Whatever it is it says it will go to it will give one more attempt after that. Not a big deal if you are going for full reinforce and get an “already reinforced” message after getting there, but if you are only trying to repair something to full HP only to have it get damaged by that one extra that gets through the cracks… that is no bueno.

[Zireael]

[quote=“deoxy, post:106, topic:11181”][quote=“Coolthulhu, post:105, topic:11181”][quote=“deoxy, post:104, topic:11181”]- skill level doesn’t seem to make NEARLY enough difference on success rates

Seriously, I’m at level 6 tailoring, and I can barely tell that I’m any better than I was at level 1.[/quote]

The chances are:
(5 + skill - difficulty)% for repair
(5 - (dexterity - tool quality) / 5)% for damage
Oops, that tool quality seems to have wrong sign - it actually makes repairs harder now

Difficulty is equal to item’s damage (1 for scratched, 4 for almost destroyed) or 4 if the item isn’t damaged and is being refitted/reinforced.[/quote]

If those are accurate, they’re lousy. Seriously, at level 10 skill, I have a 14% chance to repair an item with 1 point of damage, and the chance to damage it doesn’t change with skill or difficulty at all, other than the repair chance happening first, maybe? Maybe if you took out tool quality I don’t even know what that is for tailoring) and put in difficulty, then it would be something…

For repair chance, something like (3-difficulty+skill)^2 % might better - at 0 skill and 1 damage, that gives exactly the same repair chance as your formula (4%), then it goes up quadratically from there (9%,16%,25%, etc) up to 100% at level 8 (level 9 for difficulty 2, 10 for 3, etc).

For damage, assuming that’s difficulty instead of tool quality, I would also add skill level or 2 * skill level in there (in the part that gets divided by 5).

Also, I would suggest making reinforcing count as level 5 for difficulty in success, but 0 for difficulty in damage.[/quote]

These look fairly good.

[ZoneWizard]

I was thinking of this thread this morning. I’d like to add a small caveat of information with an idea.

Here goes-

Dental floss as thread. But REALLY strong thread. Seriously. Try to pull some waxed floss apart. It isn’t going to give as easy as normal thread. This stuff is insanely difficult to pull apart or perhaps my local stuff is just strong?

You get a single pack of floss and save enough to make Floss Garb! It’d be 2nd to Kevlar lol XD