# Needful things (simple additions to improve the game)
**URL:** https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570
**Category:** The Drawing Board
**Created:** [March 23, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570 "2014-03-23T22:36:07Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 127
### Author:  [@Xfin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Xfin)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2015, 7:48pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2521 "2015-09-15T19:48:56Z")
[quote=“Random\_dragon, post:2519, topic:5570”]Oh good, it seems that the transform function, when used on armor, does in fact correctly change layer. Now to see if the quiver use\_action can work correctly when given an item\_action entry in the menu, then it’s solely a matter of changing all the descriptions so the wording makes sense.
Oh, and I’ll need to add an uncraft recipe for the “worn at back” version since the normal version can be dismantled. Would look weird if you had to unfuck the straps just to take the quiver apart.
EDIT: FFFF-
[/quote]
Makes me wonder how well that ended up going (couldn’t make out anything form the screenshot)
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### Author:  [@Catfoodbob](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Catfoodbob)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2015, 8:29pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2522 "2015-09-15T20:29:56Z")
Make it to where you can attach items to utility vests and simply add that items encumbrance as well, like attatching pouches to the utility vest. crafting droplegs with utility vest making Utility suit. and then survivor utility suit by combining a survivor stove with a survivor belt, and the utility suit.
also a strapped to back option for another slot on torso.
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### Author:  [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2015, 8:52pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2523 "2015-09-15T20:52:21Z")
> [@Xfin](#):
>
> Makes me wonder how well that ended up going (couldn’t make out anything form the screenshot)
The quiver menu opened on top of the “multiple actions for this item” menu, instead of its own options getting added to it. So instead I just set normal quivers to the waist flag.
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### Author:  [@Womble](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Womble)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2015, 9:03pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2524 "2015-09-15T21:03:58Z")
> [@Xfin](#):
>
> ofc… if you ask me…arrows and bolts could take up more volume so it is better to use a quiver if you have more then a handful of arrows (expanding how many they hold along with this too)
This is probably true, as loose arrows aren’t going to sit in a neat little bunch. There are other items (e.g. coffee & milk powder, pasta) that Cata has containers for but it’s usually better to have them loose for weight and/or volume reasons.
[quote=“Random\_dragon, post:2519, topic:5570”]Oh good, it seems that the transform function, when used on armor, does in fact correctly change layer. Now to see if the quiver use\_action can work correctly when given an item\_action entry in the menu, then it’s solely a matter of changing all the descriptions so the wording makes sense.
Oh, and I’ll need to add an uncraft recipe for the “worn at back” version since the normal version can be dismantled. Would look weird if you had to unfuck the straps just to take the quiver apart.
EDIT: FFFF-[/quote]
Ah. Having different quivers for the different slots would still be a definite improvement, if that’s more achievable.
While we’re on a medieval kick, it would also be nice to be able to make forearm guards (vambraces if you want to be fancy) from leather and/or leather reinforced with metal splints. If I was surviving in a zombie apocalypse, the two places I’d most expect to get bitten are my hands and forearms, because Z has a tendency to grab whatever’s close to it.
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### Author:  [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2015, 9:24pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2525 "2015-09-15T21:24:16Z")
Might be interesting, though for now I’m sticking with assuming normal quivers are belt quivers, while keeping larger quivers as back quivers.
Also on the list, sling packs and whistles. Fweet.
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### Author:  [@Xfin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Xfin)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2015, 9:25pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2526 "2015-09-15T21:25:39Z")
> [@Random\_dragon](#):
>
> [quote=“Xfin, post:2521, topic:5570”]Makes me wonder how well that ended up going (couldn’t make out anything form the screenshot)
The quiver menu opened on top of the “multiple actions for this item” menu, instead of its own options getting added to it. So instead I just set normal quivers to the waist flag.[/quote]
sounds like a coding bug found by thinking outside of the box…
(i guess inverting the options in the json file dosn’t help…)
side note, is there any negative effect for giving the tailoring kit the SEW along with SEW\_ADVANCED (love the item action use menu…)
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### Author:  [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2015, 9:38pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2527 "2015-09-15T21:38:42Z")
[quote=“Xfin, post:2526, topic:5570”]sounds like a coding bug found by thinking outside of the box…
(i guess inverting the options in the json file dosn’t help…)
side note, is there any negative effect for giving the tailoring kit the SEW along with SEW\_ADVANCED (love the item action use menu…)[/quote]
Story of my life. My insane mods lead to new and exciting bugs. And…since SEW\_ADVANCED includes SEW in its list, it shouldn’t unless it dislikes including a function twice.
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### Author:  [@Womble](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Womble)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2015, 10:00pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2528 "2015-09-15T22:00:58Z")
I’m not quite sure how you tried to code the functionality, Random. From the screenshot, it looks a bit like you added another use\_action to the quiver, so Cata is responding by calling both transform and QUIVER when you (A)ctivate the item. If that’s the case, then getting quivers to work in the preferred way (adjustable) would require defining a QUIVER\_ADVANCED function that includes QUIVER and transform (similar to the way that SEW\_ADVANCED has SEW). Unfortunately, I think you’d need one menu per quiver item, because the transform targets would differ. ☹
(Note: I don’t contribute to Cataclysm because it doesn’t play nice with Ubuntu, so take all of that with a grain of salt.)
That said, just making quivers hold a greater volume of arrows than their own volume would go a long way toward making them practical items.
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### Author:  [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2015, 10:10pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2529 "2015-09-15T22:10:03Z")
Derp. What I did was give “QUIVER” an item\_action definition, then change the use\_action to both quiver and the transform action
What it did was list the two actions in the use menu, and selecting the first option opened the quiver menu on top of it… Note that if it was working as intended, the first menu would have 3 options, via the quiver menu being divided up.
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### Author:  [@Womble](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Womble)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2015, 10:28pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2530 "2015-09-15T22:28:55Z")
Right. I have some notion of how to deal with the problem, but it’s probably beyond the sort of coding involved in “Needful things”. If you’re going to PR a basic quiver improvement, I recommend adding the belt-worn versions for leather and birch (rather than replacing) and giving quivers a cost break in volume due to them keeping the arrows neat and tidy.
I could also get into plastic quivers at .75 the weight of leather ones, to support the ultra-modern archer.
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### Author:  [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)
#### Post date: [September 15, 2015, 10:39pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2531 "2015-09-15T22:39:07Z")
Hmm, maybe. Wasn’t sure how to handle quiver fixes. Rather than add yet another array of new quivers, I figured maybe just change one type and leave the large ones alone.
Hmm…guess I could expand it, but unsure about volume and such.
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### Author:  [@Logrin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Logrin)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2015, 4:44am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2532 "2015-09-16T04:44:13Z")
Maybe have a spray chemical for the chemical thrower that desiccates zombie corpses, so that they can’t revive? Certainly need insecticide and weed-killer variants, since we’ve got fungicide. Wouldn’t mind just a generic poison gas either.
Would it be possible to adapt the hollow grab to vehicle/boat mounted harpoon guns?
Have explosions fling vehicles, monsters and people the same as if they’d been hit by a vehicle. Of various magnitudes of force depending how close one was to ground zero and what was detonated.
I remember a discussion about implementing something non-fire to fusion projectiles. Maybe give them the same shovey impact? Or convert killed enemies and destroyed objects to vapor? (Green mist for zombies, red mist for living creatures, grey for objects)
Speaking of shouldn’t lasers be less effective in the rain or shooting through smoke? Maybe reduce their range according to weather.
Large enough bullets should probably get a chance to knock enemies prone, even if armor absorbs the brunt of the impact
Should heavy power armor keep you from stumbling in rubble, tripping on tripwire, being dragged or knocked back/down by anything short of hulks?
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### Author:  [@Coolthulhu](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Coolthulhu)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2015, 4:55am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2533 "2015-09-16T04:55:26Z")
[quote=“Logrin, post:2532, topic:5570”]Would it be possible to adapt the hollow grab to vehicle/boat mounted harpoon guns?
Have explosions fling vehicles, monsters and people the same as if they’d been hit by a vehicle. Of various magnitudes of force depending how close one was to ground zero and what was detonated.
Should heavy power armor keep you from stumbling in rubble, tripping on tripwire, being dragged or knocked back/down by anything short of hulks?[/quote]
No for the first. Tracking a lodged harpoon would be a ton of work. The closest thing that would be doable in sensible time would be only dragging the target a bunch of tiles the moment it is hit, but that wouldn’t be very realistic.
Explosions flinging stuff would be doable. With some extra work, it could even fling items.
Heavy armor won’t stop stumbling in rubble. It could easily make it worse.
Scaling dragging/flinging/etc. with equipment+body weight would make sense. Power armor doesn’t boost strength, so it wouldn’t help against flinging in any other way.
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### Author:  [@Logrin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Logrin)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2015, 7:21am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2534 "2015-09-16T07:21:33Z")
> Scaling dragging/flinging/etc. with equipment+body weight would make sense. Power armor doesn't boost strength, so it wouldn't help against flinging in any other way.
I keep forgetting that even when it’s powered you can be too weak to wear it.
\*New idea then. How about the ability to mount Zlaves to the exterior of vehicles for transport? As one of those ‘falls off if broken’ items.
\*Come to think of it I wouldn’t mind being able to find some of that riot bot gas in police stations/broken bots.
\*Being able to paint your vehicles, since we’ve got buckets of the stuff and brushes. Made all the more madness inducing if wrecks and scrapes could scratch the paintjob off.
\*mininuke land mines?
\*Using duct tape to install land mines as external rams on vehicles.
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### Author:  [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2015, 3:15pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2535 "2015-09-16T15:15:44Z")
Strap a zombie hulk to your vehicle. You sure this isn’t the bad suggestions thread? \>\_\>
Meanwhile, unfucking of quivers has been derailed by my hideously bad efforts to make the whistle function modular.
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### Author:  [@derval](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/derval)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2015, 3:49pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2536 "2015-09-16T15:49:23Z")
Cover atomic lamp in vehicle to be able to sleep at night without a blindfold
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### Author:  [@Womble](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Womble)
#### Post date: [September 16, 2015, 10:21pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2537 "2015-09-16T22:21:32Z")
> [@Random\_dragon](#):
>
> Meanwhile, unfucking of quivers has been derailed by my hideously bad efforts to make the whistle function modular.
I opted for a brute force solution and put 12-shot belt quivers into my game, plus a variant Survivor Belt that has quiver\_24 instead of a sheath. I’m probably going to raise the ammo capacity of the “medium” quivers to 24 and leave them on the back, and slightly reduce the large quiver’s weight/volume/enc to follow the 20% incentive.
We also need the ability to make superhero costumes from American Flags.
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### Author:  [@Logrin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Logrin)
#### Post date: [September 17, 2015, 1:15am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2538 "2015-09-17T01:15:20Z")
maybe be able to make 'Zombie Attack Pheromone for something similar, to make creatures like boomers do. Maybe even get those dim-witted zeds to do a bit of in fighting.
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### Author:  [@teldon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/teldon)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2015, 1:04am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2539 "2015-09-18T01:04:45Z")
Well I’m new to the forums, but have been playing off and on for about six months now. One thing I find beyond annoying is starting in the same shelter as a character I just suicided. I tend to suicide my character because of what I consider to be bs spawns, such as a party of triffids engulfing half the shelter as soon as I open the door. Or a zombie master and crew roaming the edge of town making town raiding impossible. Or my favourite so far, the thing that made me rage quit tonight, and something I’ll talk about next, an anti material rifle turret saying hello as soon as I step outside from the starting evac shelter. So one suggestion I would like to make is an option to blacklist your starting shelter, and any shelter within 20 map tiles, provided you suicide on day 1. Going back to the anti-material rifle turret saying hello, please no turrets or similar event spawns within 10 map tiles your starting shelter. I can’t tell you how many characters I’ve wasted because those event spawns happening so close to spawn.
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### Author:  [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)
#### Post date: [September 18, 2015, 1:08am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2540 "2015-09-18T01:08:13Z")
At that point I must sadly suggest either a new world, or a different scenario. Bottom of a mine is pretty Fun.
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