# Needful things (simple additions to improve the game)

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [March 23, 2014, 10:36pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570 "2014-03-23T22:36:07Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 109

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**Author:** ![Rivet](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/rivet/32/11_2.png) [@Rivet](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Rivet)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 2:51am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2161 "2015-06-11T02:51:19Z")

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> [@Random\_dragon](#):
>
> Also, different variations on the “holy symbol” item. Why? Mostly for flavor. o3o

When i added the holy symbol we had a discussion about variations and we basically decided that keeping it super generic is best, as it allows the player to decide exactly what religion is corresponds to on their own.

Also, I see that almost every one of your posts has this ‘o3o’ thing at the end. What’s that supposed to signify?

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**Author:** ![Random\_dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4da419/32.png) [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 2:56am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2162 "2015-06-11T02:56:34Z")

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Hmm. True, though it also makes me reluctant to sprite it because then I can’t keep it generic.

And the o3oness is my bad habit of putting emotes at the end of posts.

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**Author:** ![Rivet](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/rivet/32/11_2.png) [@Rivet](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Rivet)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 3:00am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2163 "2015-06-11T03:00:07Z")

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> [@Random\_dragon](#):
>
> Hmm. True, though it also makes me reluctant to sprite it because then I can’t keep it generic.

You’re dealing with a couple of pixels here. What I’d like to know is how you’d go about making something that’s so incredibly small distinct if we had different types.

> [@Random\_dragon](#):
>
> And the o3oness is my bad habit of putting emotes at the end of posts.

That’s an emoticon? I thought emoticons were supposed to resemble a face or something?

Holy cats, I must be getting too old for this stuff.

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**Author:** ![Random\_dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4da419/32.png) [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 3:17am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2164 "2015-06-11T03:17:12Z")

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If you don’t picture it sideways, it makes sense. o.o

And I can make a reasonable amount of detail in a small item, maybe. Enough to allow a basic cross or star-of-david shape, at the very least. \>w\>

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**Author:** ![Vronkio](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/vronkio/32/55_2.png) [@Vronkio](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Vronkio)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 3:27am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2165 "2015-06-11T03:27:48Z")

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I think the holy symbol is already a generic item which is unspecified in relation to which religion it represents so that it leaves up to the player to rp which religion it belongs to.

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**Author:** ![Random\_dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4da419/32.png) [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 3:49am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2166 "2015-06-11T03:49:27Z")

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Yus. Leaving it generic is easiest. Only thing is eventually I’ll have enough more assorted items sprited. \>.\>

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**Author:** ![RAM](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b9bd4f/32.png) [@RAM](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/RAM)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 6:42am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2167 "2015-06-11T06:42:46Z")

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You could get a pretty generic sprite by making it a necklace, the ornament on the necklace would be, like, a four pixel square, it could be anything…

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**Author:** ![Random\_dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4da419/32.png) [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 6:47am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2168 "2015-06-11T06:47:36Z")

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Ooh, that could work. owo

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**Author:** ![troll\_from\_behind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@troll\_from\_behind](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/troll_from_behind)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 11:46am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2169 "2015-06-11T11:46:31Z")

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Well if you could alternate holy symbol enough to give some variations bash equal to say warhammer and others like something of a broadsword?  
What’s the point in holy symbols if you can’t smite heathen with them?  
A holy machinegun might be a bit too much, though…

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**Author:** ![Shopkeeper](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/shopkeeper/32/453_2.png) [@Shopkeeper](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Shopkeeper)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 12:02pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2170 "2015-06-11T12:02:56Z")

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> [@troll from behind](#):
>
> A holy machinegun might be a bit too much, though…

So a Derringer disguised as a Holy Symbol then?

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**Author:** ![troll\_from\_behind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@troll\_from\_behind](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/troll_from_behind)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 12:17pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2171 "2015-06-11T12:17:22Z")

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Only if it fires blessed bullets.

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**Author:** ![troll\_from\_behind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@troll\_from\_behind](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/troll_from_behind)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 1:10pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2172 "2015-06-11T13:10:42Z")

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But seriously tho would it be possible to give the religious an option to engrave an item to make it “holy”?  
It would kinda nicely play into beign a fanatic by havin EVERYTHING scribed with “holy” words 'n phrases.

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**Author:** ![joxer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f19dbf/32.png) [@joxer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/joxer)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 1:51pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2173 "2015-06-11T13:51:38Z")

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Speaking of religious & cultural tolerance  
I wouldn’t mind seeing a buff to the “no religious books” mod 😛  
also an option to remove the only flag in the game & holy symbol items would be nice aswell

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Random\_dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4da419/32.png) [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 2:23pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2174 "2015-06-11T14:23:48Z")

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Also, if we can add a hammer to the list of holy symbols, yes. XP

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**Author:** ![troll\_from\_behind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@troll\_from\_behind](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/troll_from_behind)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 2:24pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2175 "2015-06-11T14:24:18Z")

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You miss the point.  
It’s the subconsious that grants power (so to speak) to the “faithful”.  
It’s just a way to tap to your inner strength albeit in a way many would belive “unscientific”.  
Patriotism or religion DOES make people do “acts of faith”, both good or bad, that the more scientific are unable to do so yeah, that bonus has it’s roots in reality wether some people like it or not.  
Atheism, on the other hand not so much.

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**Author:** ![Random\_dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4da419/32.png) [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 2:27pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2176 "2015-06-11T14:27:47Z")

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I mostly just want to be able to bop zombies with an adorably tiny hammer while singing along to Tyr songs.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![joxer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f19dbf/32.png) [@joxer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/joxer)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 2:35pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2177 "2015-06-11T14:35:33Z")

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[quote=“troll from behind, post:2175, topic:5570”]You miss the point.  
It’s the subconsious that grants power (so to speak) to the “faithful”.  
It’s just a way to tap to your inner strength albeit in a way many would belive “unscientific”.  
Patriotism or religion DOES make people do “acts of faith”, both good or bad, that the more scientific are unable to do so yeah, that bonus has it’s roots in reality wether some people like it or not.  
Atheism, on the other hand not so much.[/quote]

the virtues they abuse prescribe the "inner strength"  
nothing a man defending his family wouldn’t experience and completely irrational to call “acts of faith” as manifestation of "inner power"  
anything one may be determined to uphold. such as an atheist’s unwavering dedication to the more rational ways of seeing life.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![troll\_from\_behind](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/779978/32.png) [@troll\_from\_behind](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/troll_from_behind)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 2:42pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2178 "2015-06-11T14:42:10Z")

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That wasn’t the point.  
The point was, that there is a solid reasoning in having the perk in game.  
For the boring discussion 'bout atheism there isn’t need.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Random\_dragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/4da419/32.png) [@Random\_dragon](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Random_dragon)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 2:47pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2179 "2015-06-11T14:47:11Z")

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I would just say add variant holy symbols, update the “remove religious items” mod to account for that, and worry about gameplay effects, if any, later. o3o

We do have a Spiritualist trait, so presumably the main effect would be morale from wearing it. Maybe also give holy symbols a use action that translates into spending the time doing some religion-specific meditative effect for the occasional extra morale. High enough morale translates into useful side effects in a way that won’t provoke objections about giving religious items explicit buffing abilities.

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**Author:** ![vache](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/ea666f/32.png) [@vache](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/vache)\
**Post date:** [June 11, 2015, 2:55pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/needful-things-simple-additions-to-improve-the-game/5570/2180 "2015-06-11T14:55:29Z")

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[quote=“Random\_dragon, post:2179, topic:5570”]I would just say add variant holy symbols, update the “remove religious items” mod to account for that, and worry about gameplay effects, if any, later. o3o

We do have a Spiritualist trait, so presumably the main effect would be morale from wearing it. Maybe also give holy symbols a use action that translates into spending the time doing some religion-specific meditative effect for the occasional extra morale. High enough morale translates into useful side effects in a way that won’t provoke objections about giving religious items explicit buffing abilities.[/quote]

I think it already does that. If you have the trait and you activate the symbol, you get a small morale boost. Variant symbols would mean we would need variant traits that all do the same thing.

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