# Mutation category expansion

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [November 1, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755 "2013-11-01T04:36:02Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 4

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**Author:** ![infectedmochi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/infectedmochi/32/206_2.png) [@infectedmochi](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/infectedmochi)\
**Post date:** [November 23, 2013, 7:41am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/61 "2013-11-23T07:41:12Z")

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> [@KA101](#):
>
> And The Miles Prower Project just [PR’d](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/4513). I’m gonna be asking for this to merge shortly, so if you’ve got comments, now’s an excellent time to make 'em.

OH This is awesome, thanks!

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**Author:** ![ShinQuickMan](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/shinquickman/32/2516_2.png) [@ShinQuickMan](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/ShinQuickMan)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 7:19am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/62 "2013-11-24T07:19:11Z")

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Er… Maybe it’s just cause I haven’t noticed before, but why doesn’t the Fluffy Tail have an ugliness rating?

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**Author:** ![Rivet](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/rivet/32/11_2.png) [@Rivet](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Rivet)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 7:34am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/63 "2013-11-24T07:34:55Z")

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> [@ShinQuickMan](#):
>
> Er… Maybe it’s just cause I haven’t noticed before, but why doesn’t the Fluffy Tail have an ugliness rating?

Cause kitties are pretty?

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**Author:** ![infectedmochi](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/infectedmochi/32/206_2.png) [@infectedmochi](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/infectedmochi)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 7:58am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/64 "2013-11-24T07:58:25Z")

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> [@Rivet](#):
>
> Cause kitties are pretty?

NO!  
 ![](http://www.justsaypictures.com/images/ugly-kitty-earmuffs.jpg)

Joking aside, it’s probably an oversight, or is it…

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**Author:** ![John\_Candlebury](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/john_candlebury/32/6437_2.png) [@John\_Candlebury](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/John_Candlebury)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 8:08am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/65 "2013-11-24T08:08:10Z")

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> [@ShinQuickMan](#):
>
> Er… Maybe it’s just cause I haven’t noticed before, but why doesn’t the Fluffy Tail have an ugliness rating?

Cause cat girls are sexy man.

Or something

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**Author:** ![KA101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/278dde/32.png) [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 11:33pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/66 "2013-11-24T23:33:51Z")

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> [@John Candlebury](#):
>
> [quote=“ShinQuickMan, post:62, topic:3755”]Er… Maybe it’s just cause I haven’t noticed before, but why doesn’t the Fluffy Tail have an ugliness rating?

Cause cat girls are sexy man.

Or something[/quote]

“Cat-girl” was the example proteus nanovirus in GURPS Bio-Tech, but so far as I know that lack predates my involvement. Can make it ugliness 2 easily enough.

/KA101 likes cats  
/KA101 likes women

/KA101 isn’t sure that combining the two is necessarily a good idea :-/ varying social norms…not his long suit ☹

Incidentally, the PR merged about two hours ago. Drink up! 🙂 I’ll get to work on the next one ASAP.

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**Author:** ![EkarusRyndren](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/ekarusryndren/32/80_2.png) [@EkarusRyndren](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/EkarusRyndren)\
**Post date:** [November 24, 2013, 11:36pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/67 "2013-11-24T23:36:32Z")

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> [@KA101](#):
>
> [quote=“John Candlebury, post:65, topic:3755”][quote=“ShinQuickMan, post:62, topic:3755”]Er… Maybe it’s just cause I haven’t noticed before, but why doesn’t the Fluffy Tail have an ugliness rating?

Cause cat girls are sexy man.

Or something[/quote]

“Cat-girl” was the example proteus nanovirus in GURPS Bio-Tech, but so far as I know that lack predates my involvement. Can make it ugliness 2 easily enough.

/KA101 likes cats  
/KA101 likes women

/KA101 isn’t sure that combining the two is necessarily a good idea :-/ varying social norms…not his long suit ☹

Incidentally, the PR merged about two hours ago. Drink up! 🙂 I’ll get to work on the next one ASAP.[/quote]

Catwomen are overrated anime cliches. :I So what is “the next one” anyway?

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**Author:** ![KA101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/278dde/32.png) [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)\
**Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 12:43am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/68 "2013-11-26T00:43:52Z")

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I’m thinking extrapolating out Marloss Carrier. Might rename it “Mycus” per GlyphGryph’s thread. Not sure whether they’ve got any thoughts on the topic.

Will make a nice prototype for threshold and capstones too, I think.

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**Author:** ![Inadequate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Inadequate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Inadequate)\
**Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 5:35am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/69 "2013-11-26T05:35:51Z")

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Can you adjust some of the water mutations? Right now I’m running around with a mutant fishman and I’ve noticed even with just about all the water-positive mutations, you still have a major morale hit from extended periods of swimming. Perhaps add in a threshold mutation that reverses it, so you take a morale penalty for not being wet?

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**Author:** ![KA101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/278dde/32.png) [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)\
**Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 5:47am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/70 "2013-11-26T05:47:03Z")

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> [@Inadequate](#):
>
> Can you adjust some of the water mutations? Right now I’m running around with a mutant fishman and I’ve noticed even with just about all the water-positive mutations, you still have a major morale hit from extended periods of swimming. Perhaps add in a threshold mutation that reverses it, so you take a morale penalty for not being wet?

I think–haven’t looked yet–the problem there is clothing. If your clothes are soaking and drenched, your water-loving body gets lagged up by the clothes.

Will look into it though. Thanks!

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**Author:** ![Inadequate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Inadequate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Inadequate)\
**Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 6:38am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/71 "2013-11-26T06:38:05Z")

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Thanks! How do scent trails work with deep water? I’d like it if being underwater made you super-stealthy, minimizing your scent, sound and visibility, so that even if you can’t quite build anything underwater as of yet, you could still sleep outdoors on a riverbed with relative safety.

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**Author:** ![KA101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/278dde/32.png) [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)\
**Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 9:25am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/72 "2013-11-26T09:25:25Z")

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> [@KA101](#):
>
> [quote=“Inadequate, post:69, topic:3755”]Can you adjust some of the water mutations? Right now I’m running around with a mutant fishman and I’ve noticed even with just about all the water-positive mutations, you still have a major morale hit from extended periods of swimming. Perhaps add in a threshold mutation that reverses it, so you take a morale penalty for not being wet?

I think–haven’t looked yet–the problem there is clothing. If your clothes are soaking and drenched, your water-loving body gets lagged up by the clothes.

Will look into it though. Thanks![/quote]

OK, initial checks:

Naked doesn’t get anything from swimming, even with Slimy, Sleek Scales, Gills, Tail Fin, and Nicitating Membrane.

Wore a Leather Corset and 10-Gal hat. ): -49 worth of Wet. Stripped back down, still -49.

Wore a bikini top. Still -49, but swimming around underwater didn’t change it.

Same with a wetsuit / swim trunks.

Standing out in the Drizzle with the trunks on…nothing. Strip the trunks (so naked) and morale goes up.

I think I’ll be spending some time on this one. May be a while. Sorry–but thanks for calling attention to it.

[hr]

As for scent–I’m thinking that would need a flag. Aquatic critters should smell just fine underwater, cf. sharks. 😉

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**Author:** ![Inadequate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Inadequate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Inadequate)\
**Post date:** [November 26, 2013, 9:34am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/73 "2013-11-26T09:34:24Z")

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No problem. Thanks for your work. Can’t wait to run around with a proper Dagon cultist/Street Shark.

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**Author:** ![Zireael](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zireael/32/956_2.png) [@Zireael](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zireael)\
**Post date:** [November 27, 2013, 2:08pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/74 "2013-11-27T14:08:52Z")

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[quote=“KA101, post:68, topic:3755”]I’m thinking extrapolating out Marloss Carrier. Might rename it “Mycus” per GlyphGryph’s thread. Not sure whether they’ve got any thoughts on the topic.

Will make a nice prototype for threshold and capstones too, I think.[/quote]

Sounds cool!

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**Author:** ![KA101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/278dde/32.png) [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)\
**Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 2:50am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/75 "2013-11-29T02:50:01Z")

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> [@Inadequate](#):
>
> Can you adjust some of the water mutations? Right now I’m running around with a mutant fishman and I’ve noticed even with just about all the water-positive mutations, you still have a major morale hit from extended periods of swimming. Perhaps add in a threshold mutation that reverses it, so you take a morale penalty for not being wet?

Took some time with the code: it checks mutations first, and then clothing. So far as I can tell, wearing water-unfriendly clothing will screw you up no matter how fishy you are: it gets all clammy and confining and In The Way.

So I’ve got two PRs out: [Make Sleek Scales give a morale bonus from getting Drenched](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/4746), so Robust fishfolk can still get a bonus, and [Makes Water-Friendly gear expressly say as much when you examine it](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/4745), so you don’t have to guess what gear to wear swimming.

May not be the best possible solution, but I think it’s an improvement. Hoping it helps.

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**Author:** ![Inadequate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Inadequate](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Inadequate)\
**Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 7:15am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/76 "2013-11-29T07:15:25Z")

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Thanks. There should be a wetsuit and scuba gear added or something, but that’s probably an issue for another thread. Appreciate your work.

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**Author:** ![asdfzxc](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/asdfzxc/32/862_2.png) [@asdfzxc](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/asdfzxc)\
**Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 7:24am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/77 "2013-11-29T07:24:19Z")

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There already is a wetsuit item. Two of them, in fact.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![KA101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/278dde/32.png) [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)\
**Post date:** [November 29, 2013, 7:41am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/78 "2013-11-29T07:41:10Z")

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If you see yobbo around, thank xem. I mentioned my difficulty working out the details of the code in devchat…and xe found that the calls were misplaced, and slammed out a fix. Much appreciated on my end.

So now the Sleek Scales upgrade isn’t strictly necessary–I still think it should go in, but it’s not a critical fix–and you should get better mileage from your mutations.

I still recommend using proper water-friendly gear though. 😉

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![KA101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/278dde/32.png) [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)\
**Post date:** [December 2, 2013, 5:05am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/79 "2013-12-02T05:05:31Z")

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Was tied up fixing bugs for a few days. Current project is the injectable mutagens. I’m rather liking this one and hope you enjoy it as much as I do!

Work-in-progress [PR](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/4815).

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**Author:** ![Zireael](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zireael/32/956_2.png) [@Zireael](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zireael)\
**Post date:** [December 3, 2013, 6:25pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/80 "2013-12-03T18:25:07Z")

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[quote=“KA101, post:79, topic:3755”]Was tied up fixing bugs for a few days. Current project is the injectable mutagens. I’m rather liking this one and hope you enjoy it as much as I do!

Work-in-progress [PR](https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/4815).[/quote]

I’m loving it. Grabbing the experimental right now.

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