# Mutation category expansion **URL:** \ **Category:** The Drawing Board\ **Created:** [November 1, 2013, 4:36am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755 "2013-11-01T04:36:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 24

**Author:** ![iceball3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c89c15/32.png) [@iceball3](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/iceball3)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 4:21pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/461 "2015-01-12T16:21:36Z")

The reason why mutagens were not in widespread use is because -They only did anything almost immediately prior to the cataclysm. In effect, you got one month of research, give or take. -Most people in the government itself considered the mutants to be unstable freaks, and few volunteers were actually stable enough to listen to orders anyway. Any applicable ground made in utilizing mutants pretty much came forward just as the cataclysm was in full swing. ---

**Author:** ![Stretop](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stretop/32/9864_2.png) [@Stretop](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stretop)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 4:24pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/462 "2015-01-12T16:24:08Z")

> [@Darkfirephoenix](#): > > They weren’t, YET! And they are not going to get there any time soon. It is 5 days since the Cataclysm, and Old Guard have many far more pressing matters that development of “mutant-firefighters” to channel their limited resources into. > [@Darkfirephoenix](#): > > 2) Do we have ANY proof about that? Do we have ANY proof against that? > [@Darkfirephoenix](#): > > I’m using the already present facts: Rare Earth is used BECAUSE you CAN’T replace it Yeah, and wood is used in ship-building BECAUSE you CAN’T replace it… Oh, wait, but you totally can. And did. The world of Cataclysm is 30 years in the future, and every current trend in material science shows tendency to replace rare natural materials with synthetic ones. Look up technologies of photovoltaic modules construction for example. > [@Darkfirephoenix](#): > > and even if you could do it with artificial made materials: What do you think is more cost efficient? Digging up the rare earth or making a replacement that may take more raw materials, money and time? You should really learn the history of technology. Cost-efficiency is irrelevant when necessity is present. Germans learned it the [hard way](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_fuel#History). ---

**Author:** ![Closet\_Pankin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/closet_pankin/32/376_2.png) [@Closet\_Pankin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Closet_Pankin)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 5:27pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/463 "2015-01-12T17:27:10Z")

I feel like my question went under the radar, so I’ll reiterate: Why were hand talons removed from the Raptor tree? ---

**Author:** ![Logrin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/logrin/32/209_2.png) [@Logrin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Logrin)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 5:36pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/464 "2015-01-12T17:36:24Z")

I thought raptors had toe talons…wasn’t that in Jurassic Park? ---

**Author:** ![Darkfirephoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7993a0/32.png) [@Darkfirephoenix](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Darkfirephoenix)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:12pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/465 "2015-01-12T18:12:39Z")

> [@Stretop](#): > > You should really learn the history of technology. Cost-efficiency is irrelevant when necessity is present. Germans learned it the [hard way](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Synthetic_fuel#History). My good person: I AM german and I know about that (that’s why I posted about some ways for making your own fuel in another thread). Now here is my real question: How do all your points affect my idea of salamander mutations? It’s just a question if they could exist in game they CAN as stated in the official lore about the nether inhabitant, in which it’s stated that they assume (PERMANENT) forms which are beneficial for them in differnt areas (for example hot areas which would be harmfull for the pure blob) and if they would be “magical” beeings (which they wouldn’t as their heat resistance would be based upon chemicals in their bodies that allow that) which would be an near instant NO for implementation. So tell me: Are salamander mutations not implementable? (the researchers would ofc have come up with the name, as the “firelizards” would seem like salamders, so no DIRECT connection to the mystical beeings) If yes: Why aren’t they implementable (lore wise)? Then please tell me the reasons and some DIRECT links to the parts where it is stated (not just a link to the whole official canon and/or design outline). And the question if and for what the mutations would/could be used is a entirely different matter. ---

**Author:** ![Stretop](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stretop/32/9864_2.png) [@Stretop](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stretop)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:31pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/466 "2015-01-12T18:31:41Z")

You seem to mix up XE0037-based lifeforms and XE0037-based mutations. Those are two different things. > [@Darkfirephoenix](#): > > they CAN as stated in the official lore about the nether inhabitant, in which it’s stated that they assume (PERMANENT) forms which are beneficial for them in differnt areas (for example hot areas which would be harmfull for the pure blob) This is about XE0037-based lifeforms. > [@Darkfirephoenix](#): > > Why aren’t they implementable (lore wise)? Because we are speaking about XE0037-based mutations, not about XE0037-based lifeforms. And those mutations were vectored by scientists towards prime lifeforms (and their mixes), not sub-prime lifeforms. It is the same reason why we are not seeing any “mi-go mutations” or “flaming eye mutations”. > [@Darkfirephoenix](#): > > Then please tell me the reasons and some DIRECT links to the parts where it is stated (not just a link to the whole official canon and/or design outline). Read up notes on lab terminals and descriptions in lab journals. It’s all there. ---

**Author:** ![AllisonW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@AllisonW](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/AllisonW)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:34pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/467 "2015-01-12T18:34:35Z")

I kind of want a defensive mutation for archetypes that disfavour armour. Like a mutation that grants the HARDTOSHOOT flag when unencumbered (possibly just the torso and legs and maybe feet, or possibly all locations). It’d be great for those loincloth-clad barbarians and gi-wearing martial arts masters out there. ---

**Author:** ![Logrin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/logrin/32/209_2.png) [@Logrin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Logrin)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 6:44pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/468 "2015-01-12T18:44:57Z")

I suggested something similar for insects called Hard-to-Swat. Because flies can dodge explosions, among other things. Seriously, these guys put spider-man to shame. Game-wise it would be a bio-version of uncanny dodge. ---

**Author:** ![EkarusRyndren](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/ekarusryndren/32/80_2.png) [@EkarusRyndren](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/EkarusRyndren)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 9:08pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/469 "2015-01-12T21:08:43Z")

[quote=“Closet Pankin, post:463, topic:3755”]I feel like my question went under the radar, so I’ll reiterate: Why were hand talons removed from the Raptor tree?[/quote] Probably a balance thing. Lizards are cooler. Be a lizard. ---

**Author:** ![KA101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/278dde/32.png) [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2015, 11:58pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/470 "2015-01-12T23:58:52Z")

> [@Logrin](#): > > I thought raptors had toe talons…wasn’t that in Jurassic Park? Yep, Raptor was inspired by a harried researcher, one Dr. Sattler, taking an hour to destress (after thirty or so trying desperately to work out how to counteract XE037 (one 0) in a living/reanimated body), and catching that old dino flick “Cretaceous Land”. [hr] Folks, the more you clamor, the tougher it is for me to answer everything. I’m one of the folks who writes the lore, so let’s get things settled. On blob as stem cells: The Blob is one nether species. There are many. It happens to be good at altering physical form and, with quite a lot of outside coaxing, mental state, but can’t do much about willpower: you’re OK being infested with the stuff until you die. Further, their senses aren’t very effective here on Earth (hence the need for zombies: those blob suits vastly improve the Blob’s senses!) and you need a lot of 'em in one spot to get goo tactical intelligence going. Mycus is another species, and has mind-manip down much better (want some of my funberries?), but its mutagenic abilities are limited and it’s got very little localized ability to plan its development thanks to lack of intelligence in its mobile personnel, which is why it needs local guides. Triffids are a third species, and they’re somewhat adapted to handle the Mycus. They work more on the physical taming and coercion side, and intraspecies competition is planned as they’re territorial on the Heart level. Triffids from one grove will, eventually, not be friendly to triffids from another. Mi-go, flying polyps, hunting horrors, etc are all other species. On mutagen dev: Mutagens were in development for a fairly short while, true, and more to the point, they were never as appealing to the Pentagon/WH as teleportation, which sucked up most of the prestige, higher-powered staff, funding, test subjects, etc. Given the literal appearance problems with mutants, they weren’t generally considered for outside application. Alpha, being pretty close to the comic-book Super Soldier Serum (increase physical and mental attributes, no exotic anatomy or other external changes), was likely to be tested on actual, not “quote”, volunteers from The Troops in another month or two. If that worked out, it might well have gone viral throughout the government and the US have opted for bioroids and other such mutant personnel, on the general line Darkfirephoenix is thinking about. It’d have taken at least a year to get the public adequately prepared for federal mutants, I’d imagine, so literal USN/MC frogmen and such would be a long way off. (Backlash: if The Troops are being born-and-bred for the task, which would likely be preferred to mutating folks with families, what would non-mutant personnel think? How about recruiting?) But the Cataclysm put a stop to that. Elf-A was a rush job the top (best, not most senior) researcher threw together as a fallback once they discovered XE037 was spreading outside the labs; that was borderline but not unknown. Xe proceeded to conduct human trials w/o even seeing approval, but _xe_ could probably have gotten away with that. The trials had the full spectrum of effects Elf-A has, including irradiating the test subjects’ ward and rendering it permanently unusable. THAT was unacceptable. Research buried and the doc terminated. Chimera was a somewhat better-approved attempt to create shock mutants; came up as the zeds started to make themselves known. Raptor, well, it’s dated five days after the bombs dropped for a reason. There was no time to discover any sort of lead on a salamander mutation. I’m in favor of a Heat Lab (inverse of an Ice Lab) and it’s possible heat-adapted critters there could give rise to such a mutagen. But that’s not likely to actually get coded in the foreseeable future. ---

**Author:** ![AllisonW](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/919ad9/32.png) [@AllisonW](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/AllisonW)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 12:07am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/471 "2015-01-13T00:07:14Z")

> [@KA101](#): > > Chimera was a somewhat better-approved attempt to create shock mutants; came up as the zeds started to make themselves known. Raptor, well, it’s dated five days after the bombs dropped for a reason. Slight derail: I have a friend who plays a raptor mutant (just a mutant-background character with some raptor traits, not actually shooting for going further down the rabbit hole or anything post-thresh), and after I found a copy of the raptor report and saw the description, I told her I’m pretty sure her mutant was created to save the world–a last-ditch attempt at any such thing, but for that purpose nonetheless. She better not fuck this up. ---

**Author:** ![Logrin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/logrin/32/209_2.png) [@Logrin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Logrin)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 5:27am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/472 "2015-01-13T05:27:48Z")

Sticky - It’s harder for you to break grabs, but you’re not likely to lose hold of anything in your own grip either. Detritivore - An insect line mutation that lets you eat many items not commonly thought of as food. Like wood, clothing, cardboard and paper. Maybe have lizards be able to run across water post thresh as long as they don’t change direction or stop moving? Prowler - Cat mutation that muffles sound similarly to how ninjitsu works–and stacks naturally. Pouncer - Once Z-levels are in gives feline mutants a bonus to damage when dropping down onto foes Pack Leader - Lupine post thresh, activated from the mutation menu. A commanding howl that lets dogs and wolves know who to follow–you. Makes them friendly. Maybe have mutants with superior senses of smell (Like dogs, cattle, etc.) able to tell exactly how close food is to going bad. ---

**Author:** ![Pthalocy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/22d042/32.png) [@Pthalocy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Pthalocy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 8:51am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/473 "2015-01-13T08:51:08Z")

> [@Logrin](#): > > […] Misophonia - The hatred of sound. Any time the player hears a sound IG there’s a chance that it will trigger negative morale. […] I find this interesting given I have similar irl. I’d make all noises over a certain number threshold cause a morale penalty, and maybe an extra little accumulation if the noise level is maintained over consecutive turns. Dynamite bad, but long bouts of continued shooting worse. Long enough and the additional penalty would cap, diminish, and would not be re-triggered until the sounds stopped long enough for the initial morale-hit to wear off. Would reflect being temporarily accustomed to the noise but still disliking it. ---

**Author:** ![Muaddib](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/muaddib/32/392_2.png) [@Muaddib](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Muaddib)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 2:18pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/474 "2015-01-13T14:18:26Z")

> [@Pthalocy](#): > > [quote=“Logrin, post:454, topic:3755”][…] Misophonia - The hatred of sound. Any time the player hears a sound IG there’s a chance that it will trigger negative morale. […] I find this interesting given I have similar irl. I’d make all noises over a certain number threshold cause a morale penalty, and maybe an extra little accumulation if the noise level is maintained over consecutive turns. Dynamite bad, but long bouts of continued shooting worse. Long enough and the additional penalty would cap, diminish, and would not be re-triggered until the sounds stopped long enough for the initial morale-hit to wear off. Would reflect being temporarily accustomed to the noise but still disliking it.[/quote] Wouldn’t dynamite be great? Sure, you’ll have a lot of noise annoying you, but following the explosion the world will go perfectly silent for a while. The Deaf debuff should give a morale bonus. Hahahahahah. ---

**Author:** ![iceball3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/c89c15/32.png) [@iceball3](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/iceball3)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 2:37pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/475 "2015-01-13T14:37:57Z")

You COULD just wear earplugs intead. ---

**Author:** ![Pthalocy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/22d042/32.png) [@Pthalocy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Pthalocy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 5:26pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/476 "2015-01-13T17:26:02Z")

If I was playing with dynamite, yes, earphones or plugs. My dumb baby of a survivor would just defend his ear protection like a lifeline. Someone else using it and I don’t see the thing fast enough to get my ear-covers on? Wehhhhhhh!!! Mi-Go’s would make klaxon noises (a lot of their noise list is actually pretty loud) and then I would have the saddest survivor. But then deafness, yes. I forgot about deafness. It would be deafness with a ☹ face though. ---

**Author:** ![EkarusRyndren](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/ekarusryndren/32/80_2.png) [@EkarusRyndren](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/EkarusRyndren)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2015, 7:14pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/477 "2015-01-13T19:14:48Z")

> [@Pthalocy](#): > > But then deafness, yes. I forgot about deafness. It would be deafness with a ☹ face though. Sigg’d ---

**Author:** ![Catfoodbob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee59a6/32.png) [@Catfoodbob](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Catfoodbob)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 5:19pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/478 "2015-01-15T17:19:27Z")

Wouldn’t being deafend inflict a dodging penalty though, it does throw off your balence ---

**Author:** ![Logrin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/logrin/32/209_2.png) [@Logrin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Logrin)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 6:53pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/479 "2015-01-15T18:53:08Z")

Well, I’d suggest that heat stroke and frost bite were much more troublesome with this mutation: Not being able to tell how hot or cold you are. Also, sweaty. You’re always sweating! Herd Instincts - Your morale plummets without companionship! ---

**Author:** ![Stretop](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stretop/32/9864_2.png) [@Stretop](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Stretop)\ **Post date:** [January 15, 2015, 6:57pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755/480 "2015-01-15T18:57:40Z")

Bestial gallop - post-threshold mutation for animal-like mutcats (beast, lizard, cattle, chimera etc). Improves dodge and speed of character if his hands are not wielding anything. [Previous page](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755.md?page=23) [Next page](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/mutation-category-expansion/3755.md?page=25)