# Moving flaming weapons to a mod

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545>\
**Category:** The Bunker\
**Created:** [September 16, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545 "2016-09-16T21:13:57Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 20\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Coolthulhu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/coolthulhu/32/2446_2.png) [@Coolthulhu](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Coolthulhu)\
**Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 9:13pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/1 "2016-09-16T21:13:57Z")

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Started on github:

> <https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/pull/18332>

But it quickly turned into mass posting with little value. It’s not what github is for, github is the lounge of the elders where we discuss serious issues facing video games. ShitpostingOpinionposting is forum material.

So far, it looks roughly like:

Arguments for moving to mod:

[ul][li]Doesn’t fit the realism theme[/li]  
[li]Requires maintenance[/li]  
[li]No one uses them because they suck[/li]  
[li]If they were in a mod, they could be made strong and thus actually useful[/li][/ul]

Arguments for keeping mainlined:

[ul][li]It fits the “kevlar-reinforced-wolf-suit-wearing cocaine junkie wielding a flaming sword in one tentacle and an atomic vibrator in the other” theme[/li]  
[li]It could get forgotten and unupdated[/li]  
[li]Content removal is morally wrong and “moving” is 5/7 of “removing”[/li][/ul]

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**Author:** ![deoxy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/7feea3/32.png) [@deoxy](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/deoxy)\
**Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 11:07pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/2 "2016-09-16T23:07:16Z")

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There’s already a mod to remove them, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen one just drop (maybe in a pawn shop?), so really, it’s not like they’re in the way… Is there some specific reason to spend time on this?

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**Author:** ![Noctifer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/noctifer/32/458_2.png) [@Noctifer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Noctifer)\
**Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 11:21pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/3 "2016-09-16T23:21:53Z")

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> [@deoxy](#):
>
> There’s already a mod to remove them, and I don’t think I’ve ever seen one just drop (maybe in a pawn shop?), so really, it’s not like they’re in the way… Is there some specific reason to spend time on this?

It was suppose to be a quick and simple move but it got filled with controversy hence this poll.

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**Author:** ![Adventurer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/adventurer/32/1234_2.png) [@Adventurer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Adventurer)\
**Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 11:39pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/4 "2016-09-16T23:39:00Z")

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It seriously worries me that comments are being deleted from that pull request.

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**Author:** ![Zilenan91](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Zilenan91](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zilenan91)\
**Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 11:43pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/5 "2016-09-16T23:43:58Z")

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Truthfully I’ve never used any of the flaming weapons because they suck but the option of them being there would be really nice to keep them mainlined because they’re pretty cool.

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**Author:** ![Arkenstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/90db22/32.png) [@Arkenstone](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Arkenstone)\
**Post date:** [September 16, 2016, 11:57pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/6 "2016-09-16T23:57:52Z")

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I’ll second putting it in a mod. I like weird stuff but they probably shouldn’t randomly clutter up the crafting screen when they will never be used.

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**Author:** ![Adventurer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/adventurer/32/1234_2.png) [@Adventurer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Adventurer)\
**Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 12:35am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/7 "2016-09-17T00:35:47Z")

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Seriously, what is with that mugling guy? Why can’t he just be nice to people

I’ve been paying attention to that PR and I notice that after he locked the discussion (again), he removed comments and edited his posts to make his argument stronger and said it was ‘moderation’.

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**Author:** ![Izicata](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/izicata/32/70_2.png) [@Izicata](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Izicata)\
**Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:00am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/8 "2016-09-17T01:00:12Z")

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I’m voting yes on keeping them in mainline just because mugling locked the PR and started deleting/editing comments. Seriously not cool.

Also, why are flaming weapons being moved to a mod and not crap like the 7-10 Split and the fursuits?

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**Author:** ![Coolthulhu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/coolthulhu/32/2446_2.png) [@Coolthulhu](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Coolthulhu)\
**Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:01am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/9 "2016-09-17T01:01:29Z")

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The issue got swamped with opinions, so I guess he’s deleting some to make it more about arguments rather than just opinions.  
Forum is the place for discussion. Github is not good for long chains of exchanges, especially involving lots of personal preferences that aren’t related directly to code, quoting etc.

For now I won’t be merging the controversial PR.  
This doesn’t mean that the voting alone is going to change the decision. The most important part here is giving good reasons for why should flaming weapons stay in mainline.

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**Author:** ![Coolthulhu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/coolthulhu/32/2446_2.png) [@Coolthulhu](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Coolthulhu)\
**Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:03am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/10 "2016-09-17T01:03:02Z")

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> [@Izicata](#):
>
> Also, why are flaming weapons being moved to a mod and not crap like the 7-10 Split and the fursuits?

There were multiple attempts to get fursuits (and vibrators) to a mod, or even add a blacklist mod for them, but for some reason none succeeded.

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**Author:** ![Zilenan91](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/b4bc9f/32.png) [@Zilenan91](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Zilenan91)\
**Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:09am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/11 "2016-09-17T01:09:58Z")

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The concept of a player padding a wolf suit with kevlar and using it as very warm, makeshift riot suit should be treasured.

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**Author:** ![Adventurer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/adventurer/32/1234_2.png) [@Adventurer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Adventurer)\
**Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:13am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/12 "2016-09-17T01:13:01Z")

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I’m also really worried that mugling wants to change the experimental builds to a weekly release just so he can get more controversial things pushed through without being noticed.

I really hope he doesn’t have that kind of power.

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**Author:** ![Izicata](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/izicata/32/70_2.png) [@Izicata](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Izicata)\
**Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:21am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/13 "2016-09-17T01:21:06Z")

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> [@Coolthulhu](#):
>
> [quote=“Izicata, post:8, topic:12545”]Also, why are flaming weapons being moved to a mod and not crap like the 7-10 Split and the fursuits?

There were multiple attempts to get fursuits (and vibrators) to a mod, or even add a blacklist mod for them, but for some reason none succeeded.[/quote]  
I know that, I was there. The community item blacklist pr was created just four days after the flaming weapons blacklist was implemented. If you’re extending the flaming weapons blacklist to include other immersion-breaking sucky items, in effect resurrecting the community item blacklist, why aren’t the most obvious immersion-breaking sucky items included?

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**Author:** ![Coolthulhu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/coolthulhu/32/2446_2.png) [@Coolthulhu](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Coolthulhu)\
**Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:31am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/14 "2016-09-17T01:31:24Z")

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> [@Izicata](#):
>
> If you’re extending the flaming weapons blacklist to include other immersion-breaking sucky items, in effect resurrecting the community item blacklist, why aren’t the most obvious immersion-breaking sucky items included?

Because the change is themed: improbable weapons.  
Dildoes aren’t improbable weapons.

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**Author:** ![Arkenstone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/90db22/32.png) [@Arkenstone](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Arkenstone)\
**Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:34am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/15 "2016-09-17T01:34:41Z")

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I honestly think there’s a good argument to be made for keeping crafting lists simple. A lot of the pre-memorized construction options are frankly ridiculous. Do most of us run around with ideas for flaming baseball bats?

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**Author:** ![kilozombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e274bd/32.png) [@kilozombie](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kilozombie)\
**Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:37am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/16 "2016-09-17T01:37:27Z")

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[quote=“Adventurer, post:12, topic:12545”]I’m also really worried that mugling wants to change the experimental builds to a weekly release just so he can get more controversial things pushed through without being noticed.

I really hope he doesn’t have that kind of power.[/quote]

Eh, I don’t know. It might allow things to get through, it might give them more time to be inspected before an update.

FWIW, I don’t support moving more things to mods. It’s a slippery slope. Everyone wants to move everything into mods instead of letting the base-game stand as it is: a base-game. It seems now that we want to include everything possible in the game, but when there’s a conflict even slightly we offer to put them off to the side instead of working out a solution/removing anything.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Izicata](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/izicata/32/70_2.png) [@Izicata](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Izicata)\
**Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:39am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/17 "2016-09-17T01:39:11Z")

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[quote=“Coolthulhu, post:14, topic:12545”]Because the change is themed: improbable weapons.  
Dildoes aren’t improbable weapons.[/quote]  
So why isn’t the 7-10 split in there? Heck, why isn’t the regular Lajatang in there? As far as I can tell the Lajatang is entirely a creation of D&D that got popularized by DCSS, and never actually existed.

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**Author:** ![Adventurer](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/adventurer/32/1234_2.png) [@Adventurer](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Adventurer)\
**Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:47am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/18 "2016-09-17T01:47:21Z")

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So, here is my suggestion:

Make Crazy Cataclysm mainline again, tag it and other items such as these improbable weapons, fursuits, vibrators, etc. etc. with ‘Crazy’. On the Create World screen, on the menu where you name your world, you should have to choose what tone you want for your world: Serious or Crazy. It won’t default to either position, making the player have to choose one (important so new players don’t overlook it). Choosing Crazy means all those things tagged with crazy are included.

Generally speaking, someone either wants all of it or none of it.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Coolthulhu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/coolthulhu/32/2446_2.png) [@Coolthulhu](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Coolthulhu)\
**Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:50am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/19 "2016-09-17T01:50:12Z")

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> [@Izicata](#):
>
> So why isn’t the 7-10 split in there? Heck, why isn’t the regular Lajatang in there?

Because no one mentioned it in the PR.

> [@Adventurer](#):
>
> I’m also really worried that mugling wants to change the experimental builds to a weekly release just so he can get more controversial things pushed through without being noticed.

From what I understand, it’s more about keeping one build each week in addition to the regular proper experimental builds, so that there is always a “less experimental” build in addition to the “fully experimental” ones.  
This would allow merging experimental-experimental things by the start of the week, then fixing it before everyone complains about the whole game being broken.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Izicata](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/izicata/32/70_2.png) [@Izicata](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Izicata)\
**Post date:** [September 17, 2016, 1:53am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/moving-flaming-weapons-to-a-mod/12545/20 "2016-09-17T01:53:18Z")

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> [@Coolthulhu](#):
>
> [quote=“Izicata, post:17, topic:12545”]So why isn’t the 7-10 split in there? Heck, why isn’t the regular Lajatang in there?

Because no one mentioned it in the PR.[/quote]  
I wonder if that might be because it’s been repeatedly locked.

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