# More details into wander spawns

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976>\
**Category:** The Bunker\
**Created:** [July 6, 2017, 3:10am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976 "2017-07-06T03:10:10Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 16\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 3:10am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976/1 "2017-07-06T03:10:10Z")

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```
 I am simply a bit curious as to more details of how wander spawns work. Not into things like coding or anything, but it seems like with wander spawns there is a LOT more enemies; I lowered the spawn rate to 0.80 and hordes seemed to cover at least 1/4 of the map. I could just be wrong, but in the past when I used wander spawns there would be a lot of enemies but not that much. Also, just to verify, the 'Z' on the map represents a large amount of zombies right? Like a horde or something? I figured that is what it is.
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**Author:** ![Coolthulhu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/coolthulhu/32/2446_2.png) [@Coolthulhu](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Coolthulhu)\
**Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 3:15am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976/2 "2017-07-06T03:15:34Z")

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As far as I recall, hordes don’t care much for spawn rate.  
Yes, one Z is one group.

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**Author:** ![\_k1](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/_k1/32/1335_2.png) [@\_k1](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/_k1)\
**Post date:** [July 6, 2017, 3:43am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976/3 "2017-07-06T03:43:58Z")

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One zombie can be one group. If they spread even enough, they can cover more map.

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**Author:** ![EnDSchultz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e95f7d/32.png) [@EnDSchultz](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/EnDSchultz)\
**Post date:** [July 8, 2017, 11:51pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976/4 "2017-07-08T23:51:50Z")

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In my current setup with default spawn rates, cities are almost impenetrable without a lot of care and work… this is probably a mix of using wander spawns and PK’s Rebalance which I believe increases spawn rates overall. The best way I’ve found to clear them out is to just sneak up to a useless building in the middle of the night and light it on fire, then watch them sizzle…

Am I correct that the new implementation of wander spawns, at least as far as cities are concerned, the hordes do draw from an invisible “pool” of zombies so it’s actually possible to somewhat clear a town? I vaguely remember reading something to that effect (somewhere). If so, that seems to be some consolation. The way I recall wander/dynamic spawning working previously was that it would just create a bunch of zombies out of thin air whenever you made a noise.

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**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 4:24am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976/5 "2017-07-09T04:24:06Z")

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I half like the idea of there being more, purging a town of zombies would be cool, but it might get boring after a while. Also, as I have said in other forum, me want raids. At least as a mod. Thanks for the info

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 3:16pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976/6 "2017-07-09T15:16:43Z")

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The idea of wander spawns (or hordes) is that groups of zombies can move around outside the reality bubble (the area immediately next to the player, where most action happens). This simple concept gets you city repopulation, zombie migration, “raids”, misdirecting large groups of zombies, etc.  
The problem is the current implementation is very hacky and has bad behaviors, like spawning monsters inside buildings, spawning monsters in an area that was supposedly cleared out, and others. This keeps the system from being fixed or extended. I have a branch where I’ve started to overhaul how it works, but I keep getting pulled away from it and don’t know when I’ll be able to finish it.

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**Author:** ![Maddremor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Maddremor](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Maddremor)\
**Post date:** [July 9, 2017, 4:42pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976/7 "2017-07-09T16:42:30Z")

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> [@Kevin Granade](#):
>
> I have a branch where I’ve started to overhaul how it works[…]

Is the wander system to be limited to zombies, or are other monster factions to be included (at some point)?

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 5:37am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976/8 "2017-07-10T05:37:41Z")

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It’s extremely trivial to make non-zombies also use it.

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**Author:** ![Maddremor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85e7bf/32.png) [@Maddremor](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Maddremor)\
**Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:27am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976/9 "2017-07-10T10:27:04Z")

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> [@Kevin Granade](#):
>
> It’s extremely trivial to make non-zombies also use it.

Well, that’s pleasantly unexpected.

Is it reasonable to plan/discuss how different factions should behave on overmap, or is that putting the cart before the horse? If reasonable, are there any previous threads or GitHub issue in which this has been discussed? I prefer not retreading covered territory, if it can be avoided.

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**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 5:05pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976/10 "2017-07-10T17:05:24Z")

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Seeing factions being talked about a bit, I am a bit curious about that. How exactly does that work? I know it at least used to visibly show at first, but I personally never found signs of another faction. How does that system work? Also it’d be kinda cool if factions could potentially ‘raid you’ In some sort of manner.

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**Author:** ![Azrad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Azrad](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Azrad)\
**Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 5:14pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976/11 "2017-07-10T17:14:05Z")

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For most part, factions seem to be not implemented yet. Or only partially implemented. The bandits on certain locations are part of a bandit faction which is always hostile to your survivor. The guys at the refugee center and outpost also belong to a faction, and they can give some specific missions. Kill one too many of them and they will be hostile.

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**Author:** ![EnDSchultz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/e95f7d/32.png) [@EnDSchultz](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/EnDSchultz)\
**Post date:** [July 10, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976/12 "2017-07-10T22:38:38Z")

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Honestly not sure how factions factor into wander spawns. Are you thinking, say, traveling groups of NPCs, scavenging parties, etc? If so, that seems a long way off since it sounds like there are plans to overhaul the underlying wander code already. That should take precedence, as should the long-discussed overhaul of NPC functionality.

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**Author:** ![John\_Candlebury](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/john_candlebury/32/6437_2.png) [@John\_Candlebury](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/John_Candlebury)\
**Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 12:39am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976/13 "2017-07-11T00:39:05Z")

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> [@redxlaser15](#):
>
> Seeing factions being talked about a bit, I am a bit curious about that. How exactly does that work? I know it at least used to visibly show at first, but I personally never found signs of another faction. How does that system work? Also it’d be kinda cool if factions could potentially ‘raid you’ In some sort of manner.

I think he means monster factions. Say robots, triffids, fungaloids and wildlife.  
And not groups of survivors.

The code could likely handle npcs moving, but giving them sensible goals would need a lot of work in different areas.

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![redxlaser15](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/redxlaser15/32/1573_2.png) [@redxlaser15](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/redxlaser15)\
**Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 1:36am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976/14 "2017-07-11T01:36:15Z")

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I am fairly certain I do mean NPCs as in factions. But maybe I am thinking of the wrong thing?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![John\_Candlebury](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/john_candlebury/32/6437_2.png) [@John\_Candlebury](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/John_Candlebury)\
**Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 1:43am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976/15 "2017-07-11T01:43:27Z")

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> [@redxlaser15](#):
>
> I am fairly certain I do mean NPCs as in factions. But maybe I am thinking of the wrong thing?

Oh no, I meant to say:  
“Kevin is most likely refering to the other monster factions, not NPC factions.”

Your post clearly refered to the NPC factions, no doubt of that.

Sorry I cant into english.

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**Author:** ![leebash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/67e7ee/32.png) [@leebash](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/leebash)\
**Post date:** [July 11, 2017, 8:03am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/more-details-into-wander-spawns/13976/16 "2017-07-11T08:03:14Z")

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Maybe, just maybe, there can be “global” groups of zombies.  
When they are outside the world bubble, they try to move closer or randomly (from city to city, for example), but the game does not actually spawn anything. When they are within the world bubble, spawn them somewhere near the city and let them move toward the city.