Make the game hate me

system · 2013-09-24T14:16:38.000Z

Any roguelike hates you.
Because LOSING IS FUN

HS1342 · 2013-09-24T14:29:53.000Z

What do you think this is?
[size=12pt]A CASUAL GAME?![/size]
[size=14pt]IF ANYTHING, IT’S NOT HARD ENOUGH![/size]
[size=18pt]MORE ZOMBIES, MORE BEARS, MORE DEAAAAAAATH![/size]

system · 2013-09-24T14:30:57.000Z

[quote=“HS1342, post:3, topic:3196”]What do you think this is?
[size=12pt]A CASUAL GAME?![/size]
[size=14pt]IF ANYTHING, IT’S NOT HARD ENOUGH![/size]
[size=18pt]MORE ZOMBIES, MORE BEARS, MORE DEAAAAAAATH![/size][/quote]
[size=24pt]ZOMBIE BEARS, FAGGET[/size]

HS1342 · 2013-09-24T14:33:44.000Z

[quote=“trusty_patches, post:4, topic:3196”][quote=“HS1342, post:3, topic:3196”]What do you think this is?
[size=12pt]A CASUAL GAME?![/size]
[size=14pt]IF ANYTHING, IT’S NOT HARD ENOUGH![/size]
[size=18pt]MORE ZOMBIES, MORE BEARS, MORE DEAAAAAAATH![/size][/quote]
[size=24pt]ZOMBIE BEARS, FAGGET[/size][/quote] [size=24pt]ZOMBIE HULK BEARS![/size]

system · 2013-09-24T14:47:02.000Z

[quote=“HS1342, post:5, topic:3196”][quote=“trusty_patches, post:4, topic:3196”][quote=“HS1342, post:3, topic:3196”]What do you think this is?
[size=12pt]A CASUAL GAME?![/size]
[size=14pt]IF ANYTHING, IT’S NOT HARD ENOUGH![/size]
[size=18pt]MORE ZOMBIES, MORE BEARS, MORE DEAAAAAAATH![/size][/quote]
[size=24pt]ZOMBIE BEARS, FAGGET[/size][/quote] [size=24pt]ZOMBIE HULK BEARS![/size][/quote]
You forced me.
I told you.
But you did it.
I’m sorry.

[size=50pt]ZOMBIE CYBERNETIZED NETHER HULK NECROMANT MASTER BEARS[/size]

StopSignal · 2013-09-24T15:08:35.000Z

Changing Bear Gods topic, maybe some kind of evolution like in Rogue Survivor? Those zombies turned into demons with time. They are an alien outbreak here, so… why not making them turn into aliens? Or something like that? Weird creatures roaming the streets.

system · 2013-09-24T15:12:34.000Z

StopSignal:

Changing Bear Gods topic, maybe some kind of evolution like in Rogue Survivor? Those zombies turned into demons with time. They are an alien outbreak here, so… why not making them turn into aliens? Or something like that? Weird creatures roaming the streets.

Yeah, derailing is quite a stupid thing.
Also, evolution would be perfect, but I think about making every zombie a NPC with stats and skills which rise in time - just like DF, ya’ know. Also, we should add carps.

HS1342 · 2013-09-24T15:18:11.000Z

trusty_patches:

[quote=“StopSignal, post:7, topic:3196”]Changing Bear Gods topic, maybe some kind of evolution like in Rogue Survivor? Those zombies turned into demons with time. They are an alien outbreak here, so… why not making them turn into aliens? Or something like that? Weird creatures roaming the streets.

Yeah, derailing is quite a stupid thing.
Also, evolution would be perfect, but I think about making every zombie a NPC with stats and skills which rise in time - just like DF, ya’ know. Also, we should add carps.[/quote]NOT THE CARPS!

Anyway, wouldn’t that overload the engine or something? (Note that I have no knowledge of any programming)

system · 2013-09-24T15:21:12.000Z

If done correctly - no, it wouldn’t
Good example - DF itself. It can handle 500+ critters pretty well on my laptop(Intel Atom) without lagging too much(not counting on the world generation, it can freeze even top PC’s)

i2amroy · 2013-09-24T15:25:58.000Z

Eventual plans are to:

Make most zombies start out as normal zombies. Over time they will be “upgraded”, a process that will be sped up more if they are killed/revived.
Add roving zombie hordes that can wander in from the wilderness, providing quite a challenge.

Both things should make the game get harder as the game goes on.

Zireael · 2013-09-24T15:46:18.000Z

[quote=“i2amroy, post:11, topic:3196”]Eventual plans are to:

Make most zombies start out as normal zombies. Over time they will be “upgraded”, a process that will be sped up more if they are killed/revived.
Add roving zombie hordes that can wander in from the wilderness, providing quite a challenge.

Both things should make the game get harder as the game goes on.[/quote]

Good ideas.

An0n3 · 2013-09-24T17:20:02.000Z

Less is more.

If you want the game to be harder, it’s quite easy to step it up. Drop your starting points below the default amount, increase spawn density and city sizes. Good luck with that.

The late game could do with some more surprise threats, but for the most part there’s enough to do to make your own FUN.

kevin.granade · 2013-09-24T18:05:42.000Z

An idea I’ve been thinking about for zombie evolution like i2amroy mentioned (hrm… I think it’s time for a FAQ, not it!)
A new zombie “sleeper”, it gets no zombie description because as far as you can tell it’s a corpse, but if you make noise or it smells you, it gets up.
Sleepers might randomly decide to get up and wander around, likewise regular zombies might just fall over and lie down for a while, but this is rare.

This would let us have zombies all over without it necessarally being overwhelming. Also there’d be a neat mechanic where if you go through an area guns blazing you’ll wake everything up, and it might take a while for the normal number of zombies to lie back down.

An0n3 · 2013-09-24T18:17:47.000Z

Sounds cool fluffwise, but everyone would just metagame it and either fill it with arrows or silenced weapon fire at range or whatever.

If it was an extra strong zombie, ala the L4D witch (I hate making comparisons to L4D but oh well), then it might re-add some of the incentive for stealth that’s been lacking lately.

It’s hard to present the idea of a “harmless dead body” trap when everyone is now trained to butcher everything they see.

kevin.granade · 2013-09-24T19:01:05.000Z

This isn’t one or two scattered around, they’d more likely outnumber the active zombies. If you approach to butcher one, the others will smell you while you’re at it and get up to attack. Even the noise from smashing a corpse would likely wake the others. You can maybe stealthily take them out from short-ish range without alerting any of them, if you can one-shot from outside scent range with a silent weapon reliably, that sounds like a relatively high-level ability. More likely you’ll get in range and plink one, which will get up and come after you, but now you’re running the risk of waking the others, etc, it’s a tradeoff.

The real issue is if you’re in a hurry you might need to take a risk like clearing a path through them instead of taking out all of them in an area, and then run the risk of getting surrounded if you end up making a loud noise that wakes a lot of them up.

The main idea is to have a big pile of trouble that you can interact with in a different way (mostly stealth oriented), in addition to the fluff of the mostly unresponsive zombies.

An0n3 · 2013-09-24T19:18:08.000Z

Ahhh I see.

Yes that does sound cool. Stepping out into a mainstreet to say a bunch of dormant zombies and one or two up and shambling about. Would also make shriekers a much bigger problem.

+1 from me!

ComputerWarrior · 2013-09-24T19:55:21.000Z

[quote=“An0n3, post:17, topic:3196”]Ahhh I see.

Yes that does sound cool. Stepping out into a mainstreet to say a bunch of dormant zombies and one or two up and shambling about. Would also make shriekers a much bigger problem.

+1 from me![/quote]
+1 from me as well.

Classic zombies are more of a threat than shriekers in static spawn, where sound doesn’t particularly affect spawning so this will hopefully make people actually afraid of shriekers.

system · 2013-09-24T21:52:34.000Z

VERY nice idea. Always thought about that, to be honest, but python.
However, we’ll finally find a proper way to use that firecrackers

RadaRadaRada · 2013-09-24T21:59:33.000Z

On topic of mutating enemies: Maybe animals should do something similar over longer period of time then zombies? It could apply only around zombie infested towns and slime pits. Radiation could play some part in it too.

For example: The ravens spawn together with zombies and, I assume, feed on goo tainted zombie flesh. They are not zombified, because they are too small and nor gigantized as they are too complex. So, this steady diet of chtullu’s butter, could eventually mutate them. and if radiation is present it may speed up the process a bit as it causes goo to mutate the host body. So, eventually: swarm of hivemind birds which tear small bits of you or giant crows with scythe like beak(s).

Bonus points if nearby fire ants from nearby anthill, become literal fire ants.

youtoo · 2013-09-25T14:55:53.000Z

I like these ideas. I also like the idea of having an option to make the game decide to get dynamically harder when you do better. You can add a difficulty level which can let the game get unfair at points. I don’t like the idea of making mobs ‘stronger’ than they normally are, but I like situations where they throw more of them at you.

–your going around. all of a sudden (and out of no where) the building you are looted is surrounded with 50 zombies.
–your injured a little and then game decides now is a great time to screw you so spawns some zombie dogs and ‘faster’ mobs since the pain makes you slower.
–you wake up in the morning and raise your weary head to find your shelter surrounded by 200+ zombies(maybe 1000 if your in a city apartment). so you better have traps and stuff prepared. --Basically just auto-spawned. Game can give you some time, but this makes securing your shelter with traps and boards, and lots of guns and stuff critical. Makes strategy important. do you have lots of pits? to slow down the bad guys. or do you mix with 1 off traps to damage or kill some as well. but once these are gone, they get through. Do you board up all doors and windows (save 1 window) to pin them down. eventually you gotta eat though? You could also do additional construction to funnel the zombies if they get in.
– do you have heavy furniture in behind your doors that you can quickly move to make it harder to bash doors (this is not in the game yet. furniture doesn’t block doors.
– do you have a getaway car with a stash? , but you gotta get to your car… and then drive through the zombies.

longer you live, the harder the game can get. this needs to be an option cause if your not experienced its pointless. right now, there is not alot of sense of urgency. your only urgency is ‘get water’ and way to purify water early. after that, nothing is really ‘urgent’. with these types of things, securing your shelter is really important and its ‘urgent’. you will need to carefully decide which skills you want to work on in preparation for the coming hordes. You dont have time to get good at everything. you need to work out strategies such as the best way to lay traps. where to stockpile ammo, rocks, etc… in your shelter. how to construct your shelter. do you want a second wall around it? A fence in front of some doors?