Magazines/clips dont work like that

[GlyphGryph]

A simple thing I want to do is have moving around significantly bump recoil, so to take really accurate shots you’ll have to stop moving, currently it’s backwards where you can fire, then move away from enemies while you’re waiting for recoil to drop.

Just as note, I think this will probably get rolled into the combat rewrite I outlined on github, assuming it isn’t already done by the time I start it. At that point, pausing and patience and whatnot will become a large part of combat for people either in ranged OR melee, so with a decent mechanics tutorial (practically required after the changes) I think it makes perfect sense.

[KA101]

@KevinGranade

Last I checked, the gun-porn game JA2 1.13 still assumes the mercs can magic up (an) empty mag(s) of the correct type for any weapon they can get, provided they’ve ammo for it. Unless you want to make mag starvation a serious part of the game (and you may well want to–just making sure), the current generic-mag system isn’t so bad.

[Morrigi]

[quote=“KA101, post:25, topic:1959”]@KevinGranade

Last I checked, the gun-porn game JA2 1.13 still assumes the mercs can magic up (an) empty mag(s) of the correct type for any weapon they can get, provided they’ve ammo for it. Unless you want to make mag starvation a serious part of the game (and you may well want to–just making sure), the current generic-mag system isn’t so bad.[/quote]
Ever played 7.62 High Caliber? It’s the spiritual successor to JA2 and indeed has unique magazines and separate boxes of ammo.

[Tee]

Id love to have seperate mags for each gun. Although id like a way to change a clip so it would work in a similar gun that uses the same ammo. Of course, itd require a high crafting skill and high firearms skill to do so.

[ejseto]

Two issues with this. Reload-one for high-capacity magazines is a non-starter, it’s bearable for weapons that hold less than 10 or so rounds, but for extremely common weapons with 30+ round magazines, this would be a terrible UI. We could perhaps add an option to reload one, or reload X rounds instead of how it works now where you have to reload the entire magazine, but the default would still be a keypress or two (ammo type selection) to reload the entire magazine.

I think you’re exaggerating the tedium a little bit, though it wouldn’t hurt to have a “reload X rounds” button either. The main thing I hate about RELOAD_ONE weapons is the fact that you’re basically a sitting duck for up to 19 turns (with the Marlin) since every reload takes at least one turn regardless of your speed or the actual move cost. Spamming ‘r’ wouldn’t be that bad, I tend to just spam the repeat last craft button rather than bother with the craft until out of materials one, for example. I suppose it might be disconcerting to new players though, who would probably expect Call of Duty reload mechanics.

[kevin.granade]

The main thing I hate about RELOAD_ONE weapons is the fact that you’re basically a sitting duck for up to 19 turns (with the Marlin) since every reload takes at least one turn regardless of your speed or the actual move cost.

If this is the case it’s a bug, you should be able to reload at the stated speed…
Just looked at the code, yea this is totally a bug.

ugh… this might be a generic bug with all of our extended activities, it’s zeroing out your remaining moves before queuing up the delayed action, which means you lose whatever fraction of a turn you have left in addition to the stated cost of the activity. It’s not going to be particularly noticeable with very long term activities, because the time is dominated by the normal time to take the action, but for very short actions like this it’s more than doubling the time the action takes.

[vache]

I’ve just skimmed through this, so forgive me if I missed something important, but I think a separate ammo/magazine management interface might be too much. I think using the same Unload/Reload system would work fairly well, ie: pistol magazine holds 10 rounds, pistol holds one clip, reloading the pistol encompasses the actions of removing empty clip and placing new one in. Granted this system needs a little bit of an overhaul too, but the way I see it, we already have several interfaces that kind of clutter things I think. There is a delicate balance between offering many options and not overwhelming the user. We have the inventory screen, the advanced inventory screen, the worn inventory screen, the crafting screen, the player screen, and so on, so that when I play, I feel like I spend just as much time managing my inventory and digging through my interfaces as I do actually playing the game. I would try to consolidate as many systems as possible into as few interfaces as possible as long as you can avoid kludginess and awkward workarounds. Maybe combine crafting/loading & unloading/weapon & ammo management into a generic item combination screen? It shouldn’t be a “horadric cube” type system as it sounds like, but it should be possible to work something out with it.

[Bladerock]

You reload a magazine which is used to reload a firearm faster.

Not unlike reloading a bone needle or any other item. Actually, not unlike reloading a firearm with the extra magazine mod twice. Except that you can carry more than one spare.

It’s not a separate interface.

[kevin.granade]

I’d probably be happy with a reload command that targets the inventory, I think the thing that’s bugging me is that you have to go i->item->r instead of r->item, I pretty much never use the former functionality, so it seems awkward to me.

Note this would be a new command, not replacing the current “reload wielded weapon” command.

[Morrigi]

In my opinion, all firearms requiring magazines to fire IRL should require realistically compatible magazines in-game. This would also give rise to fun things like Beta-C mags or, being in the future, quad column magazines. In addition, the missing mechanic of rounds left in the chamber by a partial reload would be a nice touch.

The new container system, when released, should minimize the inventory clutter of this mechanic to tolerable levels. It would be quite useful to be able to designate a specific container for, say, ammunition and have a weapon automatically reload from this container. Having seen another thread suggesting fabricators capable of creating items, it would also be easy to adapt that system to make magazines in case of a shortage.

Now, let it be said that ejecting and reloading an entire magazine takes an order of magnitude longer than simply reloading your weapon with a second, full magazine. This should be reflected and would make gunplay more interesting at earlier stages in the game due to limited magazines. It also might make revolvers more attractive due to their still-effective rate of fire without utilizing a magazine. Of course, speed-loaders should still be available.

[Tee]

You make a great point. Revolvers would suddenly seem a lot more useful. I mean, they wouldnt have as high of a fire rate, but you’d be able to keep sustained fire for a longer period of time. Eventually your character would get skilled enough in revolvers to reload one extremely quickly, too.

[ClaytonRISING]

I’ve been through the terrors of reloading handfuls of magazines (M16A2), I don’t know if I’d wish it upon my survivor lol.

[Tripsky]

in regards to reload time, i suggest a mechanic that when your character starts reloading you can watch the process of each reload/time as they desperately slam bullets into the clip… i mean magazine.

for example - you just unloaded your final round in your glock at the upcoming hoard. you hit reload. the text ‘you eject your magazine and start reloading’

then your character starts sliding bullets into the magazine, and with each bullet the appropriate time passes. that way you can see the hoard coming towards you. you might get up to six bullets before they’re almost on top of you and decide to stop, slam your magazine back in and hope that 6 is enough.

as far as the interface goes maybe hitting ‘wait’ to chamber the next bullet, or if it just ticks through automatically and you can interrupt it if you want to stop, like when you study a book, but obviously on a much shorter time frame.

i know some won’t like this because it will slow gametime down a little, and some guns can hold A LOT of bullets, so maybe a safe reload (by hitting ‘r’ again) will skip to the end of the full reload, for those meatier high capacity weapons.

for me though it will create a lot of realism with guns, plus give a better feel. you’ll develop sidearms you prefer for skirmishing because of their quick reload on the fly etc

[ballfairy]

its a good thing someone stepped in for me as I would not have been as merciful

having a individual magazine system would be neat, and this would also add to the way you can plan out your weapons, and the nice thing is you can still simplify it (IE .223/5.56x45mm magazines all fit the same guns like in real life with the exception of a handful of guns, thanks NATO) and this would also be neat to see as you could have Ready magazines and magazines in storage. (IE magazines/stripper clips for your sks or whatever in your backpack are harder to get to, but if you have some kind of bandolier/magazine pouch system/Kevlar vest with mag pouches you could have those mags ready to be quickly reloaded into the firearm, say like a Kevlar vest could have 2-4+ pistol magazine pouches and 6+ rifle magazine pouches or maybe some kind of belt system you could create, for instance equipping a regular old leather belt allows you to then wear holsters/magpouches/other allowing customization of loadouts and depending on how many pouches/attachments you have to the belt adds to the encumbrance (1-3 items only maybe 1 encumbrance or 0 but above that you take 2 and then a few more items and you bump it up to 3 etc) and without the belt holsters are basically useless, with the exception of a bootstrap ofc)

but that’s just what I typed up with lightly skimming over the thread if something has already been mentioned (Which it likely has)

[Iosyn]

[quote=“Endovior, post:6, topic:1959”]Yeah, they’re not terribly uncommon, though they are fully generic, so there’s no difference between gun types. Also, you can’t exactly scavenge the magazine from one gun to use in another, you need the generic spare magazine item.

Also, obligatory…

[/quote]

Just wait until we see speedloaders for revolvers.
Just use an automatic goddamnit.

As for the spare magazine mod we currently have, we should be able to make something similar/homebrew with duct tape.

[ClaytonRISING]

As for the spare magazine mod we currently have, we should be able to make something similar/homebrew with duct tape.

Duct tape? I uh…I don’t think that would work.

[Iosyn]

Magazine + Duct tape + Magazine.

[Cyclops]

Magazine + Duct tape + Magazine.

I second this notion, though, from my limited knowledge of real-world firearms, I suppose it would only actually work on bigger box-magazines like those found on SMGs and assault rifles. Your average 9mm pistol’s magazine wouldn’t really accommodate such a thing, since they generally sit flush with the gun grip itself. An extended magazine would be a different story, but that’s getting into slightly complicated territory, I would think.

Otherwise, this is a sound idea which should be implemented.

[Hyena_Grin]

Definitely in favor of magazines and clips being separate from the gun itself. I’d love to be able to salvage the magazines from other weapons so that I can reload my guns more quickly. Yeah it’s a little more inventory management but I think it could be handled relatively slickly using a sort of context-sensitive reload function:

Gun is EMPTY
is there a loaded magazine available?
If YES, reload with magazine containing highest ammunition count.
If NO, then reload magazine (one bullet at a time)

Gun is FULL
Reload will load ammunition into any spare magazines for the weapon.

Also, since we’re on the subject of guns and recoil and stuff, I’d like to see melee combat have an effect on firearms usage. Especially with larger guns, it is extremely difficult to shoot someone in melee range. Obviously zombies aren’t terribly clever and don’t know to avoid the muzzle, but regardless, if you have a rifle and are getting gnawed on, you are going to have a hard time shooting the gnawer. So my suggestion is to impose recoil on the player every time they are struck in melee combat. The severity of the recoil adjustment would be based on the kind of weapon. Handguns would be very minor, while hunting rifles would be quite severe.

[Morrigi]

I just want to see some old-fashioned WW2-era rifles like the Mosin-Nagant, especially because that gun in particular is quite popular. This is partly due to the fact that over 37 million were produced and also because one can be easily bought for ~$150. And they come with a bayonet.