# M249 Autonomous Crows II generates matter from nothing

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/m249-autonomous-crows-ii-generates-matter-from-nothing/25464>\
**Category:** The Garage\
**Created:** [December 4, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/m249-autonomous-crows-ii-generates-matter-from-nothing/25464 "2020-12-04T18:52:51Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 8\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Paul\_Blay](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/paul_blay/32/6803_2.png) [@Paul\_Blay](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Paul_Blay)\
**Post date:** [December 4, 2020, 6:52pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/m249-autonomous-crows-ii-generates-matter-from-nothing/25464/1 "2020-12-04T18:52:51Z")

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So, I noticed that the Crows II scatters ammo belt linkage when it fires. Which is fine. But when you disassemble the broken turrets they have a ton of ammo but no ammo belt. No linkages. So when they fire they just magic ammo linkage out of thin air in order to make it look good.

Now there’s no reason they couldn’t have been designed with ‘turret only guns’ and / or ‘turret only ammo’ (and maybe they should have been) but they weren’t, so it doesn’t make any more sense that they drop ammo and gun but no belt components.

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**Author:** ![zantanzuken](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zantanzuken/32/10325_2.png) [@zantanzuken](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/zantanzuken)\
**Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 7:46am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/m249-autonomous-crows-ii-generates-matter-from-nothing/25464/2 "2020-12-05T07:46:03Z")

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i mean its entirely possible that they have a specialized ammo linkage system that only the turret can use properly, until the ammo gets spent, at which point its some scrap metal or plastic on the ground that can be bent into the shape you need to create a proper ammo belt.

… but its more likely that the devs just didnt want to program in the turrets dropping multiple ammo belts, and just went for bullets instead.

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**Author:** ![Paul\_Blay](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/paul_blay/32/6803_2.png) [@Paul\_Blay](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Paul_Blay)\
**Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 8:08am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/m249-autonomous-crows-ii-generates-matter-from-nothing/25464/3 "2020-12-05T08:08:33Z")

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> [@zantanzuken](#):
>
> … but its more likely that the devs just didnt want to program in the turrets dropping multiple ammo belts, and just went for bullets instead.

Or they just forgot. CCDA has a general ‘realism trumps game convenience (mostly)’ thing going on, so I don’t think they _should_ have intentionally skipped the ammo belt, but yeah, maybe they did.

Anyway, I think the belts should probably be included - for realism.

An alternative would be to have the gun be an integral part of the turret chassis and so pretty much impossible to carry around and use. Possibly with proprietary ammo types. The only real motive for having turrets use guns that people can unbolt and use with triggers and stocks and all would be that they are designed that way deliberately for the army so that they have an over-powered machine gun available when they need one. Which is a fairly silly approach to handling that problem, but it could have been done that way for public relations or legal reasons. Locals getting anxious that their neighbouring military base has machine guns laying around so they ‘hide’ them inside robot turrets.

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**Author:** ![zantanzuken](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zantanzuken/32/10325_2.png) [@zantanzuken](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/zantanzuken)\
**Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 8:17am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/m249-autonomous-crows-ii-generates-matter-from-nothing/25464/4 "2020-12-05T08:17:35Z")

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proprietary ammo would be expensive though, even in real life, if someone were to make an automated turret system of some design, they’d do so with existing ammunition because it already is mass produced and cheap to obtain.

also most existing turrets on vehicles generally -are- just a big gun slapped on top of a car, so you could, theoretically, unbolt the gun and walk off with it… though similarly to in game, its far too heavy to fire effectively unless you’ve got it set up on something.

at least in-game, it seems that society was starting to move towards a robot-y approach to security, as you dont see that many police cars around, but you do see eyebots and riot control robots when you set off a security system, and there are robotic (assumedly self-driving) cars as well. it’d make sense for the military to start moving towards automated turret systems with target recognition.

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**Author:** ![Paul\_Blay](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/paul_blay/32/6803_2.png) [@Paul\_Blay](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Paul_Blay)\
**Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 8:54am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/m249-autonomous-crows-ii-generates-matter-from-nothing/25464/5 "2020-12-05T08:54:03Z")

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When you’re right, you’re right.

So, take out and walk away guns are based on Real Life ™. Although that makes it even odder that there aren’t ammo belts when you disassemble them. You can literally see the ammo belt going into the real world versions. At least I presume that’s what I’m looking at on the right hand side of this picture:  
[https://ychef.files.bbci.co.uk/1600x900/p02x54fw.webp](https://ychef.files.bbci.co.uk/1600x900/p02x54fw.webp)

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**Author:** ![zantanzuken](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/zantanzuken/32/10325_2.png) [@zantanzuken](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/zantanzuken)\
**Post date:** [December 5, 2020, 9:01am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/m249-autonomous-crows-ii-generates-matter-from-nothing/25464/6 "2020-12-05T09:01:40Z")

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yeah. as far as current ‘real life’ automated turrets are concerned, the scientists behind them are less focused on the gun part and more focused on the ‘automated’ part… like the ‘phalanx’ on the ship USS Denver, which is literally just a chaingun slapped in a metal housing!  
[![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/77/Phalanx_CIWS.jpg/800px-Phalanx_CIWS.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/77/Phalanx_CIWS.jpg/800px-Phalanx_CIWS.jpg)

its less about the gun, more about the target aquiring technology.

Edit:  
they have upgraded it a bit, but it is also attached to a naval ship… i doubt you’d take the time to remove the gun from the ship.  
[![](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Phalanx_CIWS_USS_Jason_Dunham.jpg) ](https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/93/Phalanx_CIWS_USS_Jason_Dunham.jpg)  
this is whats inside it:

> **[M61 Vulcan](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M61_Vulcan)**
>
> The M61 Vulcan is a hydraulically, electrically or pneumatically driven, six-barrel, air-cooled, electrically fired Gatling-style rotary cannon which fires 20 mm rounds at an extremely high rate (typically 6,000 rounds per minute). The M61 and its derivatives have been the principal cannon armament of United States military fixed-wing aircraft for sixty years.
> The M61 was originally produced by General Electric. After several mergers and acquisitions, it is currently produced by General Dynami...

Another edit:  
the CROWS is a real thing too, [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CROWS](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CROWS)

the turret itself generally only carries 1000 rounds though (specifically 1600 for the M249 version.) also, note the ‘m249’, that literally means theres a [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M249\_light\_machine\_gun](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M249_light_machine_gun)  
just slapped into it.

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**Author:** ![anothersimulacrum](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/anothersimulacrum/32/10770_2.png) [@anothersimulacrum](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/anothersimulacrum)\
**Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 6:48am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/m249-autonomous-crows-ii-generates-matter-from-nothing/25464/7 "2020-12-06T06:48:14Z")

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> [@Paul\_Blay](#):
>
> So, I noticed that the Crows II scatters ammo belt linkage when it fires. Which is fine. But when you disassemble the broken turrets they have a ton of ammo but no ammo belt. No linkages. So when they fire they just magic ammo linkage out of thin air in order to make it look good.
> 
> Now there’s no reason they couldn’t have been designed with ‘turret only guns’ and / or ‘turret only ammo’ (and maybe they should have been) but they weren’t, so it doesn’t make any more sense that they drop ammo and gun but no belt components.

Hhm. They were spawning in belts at one point. Could you file a bug report?

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<div class="post-metadata">

**Author:** ![Paul\_Blay](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/paul_blay/32/6803_2.png) [@Paul\_Blay](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Paul_Blay)\
**Post date:** [December 6, 2020, 7:37am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/m249-autonomous-crows-ii-generates-matter-from-nothing/25464/8 "2020-12-06T07:37:41Z")

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Done.

> <https://github.com/CleverRaven/Cataclysm-DDA/issues/45861>
>
> Describe the bug
> The M249 Autonomous Crows II turret does not drop a belt when it is disassembled, only ammo. Apparently this...