# Knowing exactly how much pain you're in

**URL:** <https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936>\
**Category:** The Drawing Board\
**Created:** [February 17, 2015, 9:51am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936 "2015-02-17T09:51:07Z")\
**Posts on this page:** 19\
**Page:** 1

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**Author:** ![Senrain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/senrain/32/11388_2.png) [@Senrain](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Senrain)\
**Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 9:51am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/1 "2015-02-17T09:51:07Z")

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I find it odd that your character knows exactly how much pain they’re in based on a number. I think this number should only be visible if you take self-aware, thus increasing it’s utility.

If you don’t have self-aware then the indicator for pain should be a lot more vague, on a scale of mild, moderate, strong, severe, intense, excruciating, and agonizing pain. Just as an example.

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**Author:** ![deadmerits](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/deadmerits/32/19_2.png) [@deadmerits](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/deadmerits)\
**Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 9:54am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/2 "2015-02-17T09:54:44Z")

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While I get where you’re coming from and actually like your idea for a pain system, numbers are how we rate pain in hospital settings. Granted IRL its 1-10 and we have quite a different number system, its still the person/character/player assigning a number to their pain based on how it feels.

But yeah, numbers don’t seem natural for pain descriptors.

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**Author:** ![Senrain](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/senrain/32/11388_2.png) [@Senrain](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Senrain)\
**Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 10:01am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/3 "2015-02-17T10:01:05Z")

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Yeah, highest pain level I’ve ever had was in the 2000’s, definitely not a 1-10 scale. Although it would be entertaining to have a ‘Please somebody kill me’-esque indicator if you somehow managed to reach UNGODLY amounts of pain.

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**Author:** ![Coolthulhu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/coolthulhu/32/2446_2.png) [@Coolthulhu](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Coolthulhu)\
**Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 10:03am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/4 "2015-02-17T10:03:44Z")

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It would require rebalancing the effects or you’d just get an ugly spoily system where you gauge your pain by stat and speed reductions.

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**Author:** ![Vogun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/278dde/32.png) [@Vogun](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Vogun)\
**Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 1:08pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/5 "2015-02-17T13:08:35Z")

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[I like to suggest a brand new pain scale.](http://hyperboleandahalf.blogspot.co.uk/2010/02/boyfriend-doesnt-have-ebola-probably.html)

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**Author:** ![jcd](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/jcd/32/338_2.png) [@jcd](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/jcd)\
**Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 1:25pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/6 "2015-02-17T13:25:03Z")

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I agree with the OP that only text, not numbers should be describing the pain. There could be ten states of pain, thus ten different descriptions of it, as per Vogun’s scale.

I’d propose keeping the current pain system as is behind the scenes, but using the 10-number scale in what actually the character knows. (easier to code, same effect as changing the scale fully)

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**Author:** ![Valpo](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/valpo/32/341_2.png) [@Valpo](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Valpo)\
**Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 3:52pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/7 "2015-02-17T15:52:48Z")

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No i have to agree with coolthulhu here.  
It would just make me calculate my pain lvl by looking at my stat changes.  
Unless i can not see my stat changes either this would only make reading the pain lvl more tedious.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 5:12pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/8 "2015-02-17T17:12:31Z")

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Would you really be gauging your pain by the effects, or would you be looking at the effets directly? the latter is exactly what we would want to happen. I’m in favor of a more vague and description-based pain scale.

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**Author:** ![Coolthulhu](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/coolthulhu/32/2446_2.png) [@Coolthulhu](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Coolthulhu)\
**Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 6:48pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/9 "2015-02-17T18:48:05Z")

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> [@Kevin Granade](#):
>
> Would you really be gauging your pain by the effects, or would you be looking at the effets directly? the latter is exactly what we would want to happen. I’m in favor of a more vague and description-based pain scale.

I’m afraid it would result in good players being able to tell the pain level very precisely anyway, just in a more tedious way (simple math rather than just looking).  
Take radiation for example: if you know how it works, you can calculate its level relatively precisely (multiples of 80, 90, 100 and 110, AFAIR), except for the harmless levels (below 80).

Maybe if stat drops were semi-random? As in, each survivor had “wobbly” levels of pain tolerance per stat that would slowly change (few points per day or hour at most). Same for radiation and maybe even diseases (cold and flu).

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**Author:** ![John\_Candlebury](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/john_candlebury/32/6437_2.png) [@John\_Candlebury](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/John_Candlebury)\
**Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 7:23pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/10 "2015-02-17T19:23:04Z")

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Ehh not such a fan of this type of obfuscations, seems like it would add nothing really meaningful to the game; not so sure whats the big problem with displaying a number either, in the end having pain as a number makes as much sense as having your health displayed as lifebars

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**Author:** ![KA101](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/278dde/32.png) [@KA101](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/KA101)\
**Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 11:11pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/11 "2015-02-17T23:11:42Z")

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Yeah, obfuscation sounds fun and all but I’ve no problem with the current system.

Tough part with “looking at the effects directly” is that it requires calling the @ screen. Not sure how many folks make a point of doing that. Notes to the log might be helpful when passing pain thresholds?

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**Author:** ![Cataclysmic\_Days\_Awa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@Cataclysmic\_Days\_Awa](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Cataclysmic_Days_Awa)\
**Post date:** [February 17, 2015, 11:42pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/12 "2015-02-17T23:42:08Z")

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Here’s an idea straight out of an anime (maybe…): once you get so much pain, you could be permenantly blinded, puke up your lunch, gain a new PTSD trait, ect., or you could go in the other direction if you have masochist(?) and gain good effects/traits from this…

Or I could just need to go talkto someone again…

(BTW, I’m not trying to offend anyone.)

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**Author:** ![EditorRUS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/9fc29f/32.png) [@EditorRUS](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/EditorRUS)\
**Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 7:51pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/13 "2015-02-20T19:51:46Z")

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Back in old days player could see exact amount of HP left on each part of the body. After some time someone complained that’s stupid and it has been replaced with |||||-system, also “Self-Aware” trait’s been added so the player could see HP like he could before.

So now I see totally the same thing, but for pain.

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**Author:** ![StopSignal](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stopsignal/32/1923_2.png) [@StopSignal](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/StopSignal)\
**Post date:** [February 20, 2015, 8:19pm UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/14 "2015-02-20T20:19:50Z")

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[quote=“EditorRUS, post:13, topic:8936”]Back in old days player could see exact amount of HP left on each part of the body. After some time someone complained that’s stupid and it has been replaced with |||||-system, also “Self-Aware” trait’s been added so the player could see HP like he could before.

So now I see totally the same thing, but for pain.[/quote]

And it’s cooler! I don’t know who checks their stats constantly on pain. I don’t.

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**Author:** ![Lanceo90](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/lanceo90/32/137_2.png) [@Lanceo90](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Lanceo90)\
**Post date:** [February 21, 2015, 2:27am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/15 "2015-02-21T02:27:57Z")

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Sounds like a good idea to me.

Weird as it is, I perfer it when it’s vague instead of being exact. Back when health was in numbers by default I thought the “unaware” trait was actually a good one to pick.

Numbers don’t come naturally to me, so when it’s just numbers I’m more lost than when it’s vauge. Color + bar makes it easier to understand. Same goes for pain I’d think.

I’d even be up for the same thing happening to something like attack speed on weapons. I know ‘125’ is slower than ‘89’ but don’t really understand how it really effects it. I could drop everything and sit around doing some DPS calculations but that’s lame sus.

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**Author:** ![Perigrin](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/perigrin/32/262_2.png) [@Perigrin](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Perigrin)\
**Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 4:58am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/16 "2015-02-26T04:58:17Z")

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Have it be vague, but have self aware both give you exact health and exact pain levels. Boom, everyone is happy.

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**Author:** ![StopSignal](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/stopsignal/32/1923_2.png) [@StopSignal](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/StopSignal)\
**Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 5:12am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/17 "2015-02-26T05:12:55Z")

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> [@Perigrin](#):
>
> Have it be vague, but have self aware both give you exact health and exact pain levels. Boom, everyone is happy.

You nailed it! that’s perfect.

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**Author:** ![kevin.granade](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/kevin.granade/32/1316_2.png) [@kevin.granade](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/kevin.granade)\
**Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 5:35am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/18 "2015-02-26T05:35:45Z")

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That would be it yes, though fair warning, I’m planning on doing away with HP entirely at some point and do something more like what DF does, track individual wounds that just pile up until you’re disabled. At that point the self aware trait is going to be kind of pointless since there will literally not be a numeric scale of how close to death you are.

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**Author:** ![Rhodri](https://sea2.discourse-cdn.com/flex016/user_avatar/discourse.cataclysmdda.org/rhodri/32/342_2.png) [@Rhodri](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/u/Rhodri)\
**Post date:** [February 26, 2015, 8:30am UTC](https://discourse.cataclysmdda.org/t/knowing-exactly-how-much-pain-youre-in/8936/19 "2015-02-26T08:30:41Z")

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[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:18, topic:8936”]That would be it yes, though fair warning, I’m planning on doing away with HP entirely at some point and do something more like what DF does, track individual wounds that just pile up until you’re disabled.

-tiny snip is tiny-[/quote]  
THE HYPE IS REAL!