Item blacklist mod discussion

[kevin.granade]

Whoa, anger!

Wow, sensitive much? What did I say that gave you the impression I’m angry?
I responded to your statements, corrected your mischaracterization of your vote, and informed the thread that I’m not copying over posts from the voting thread any more. Don’t see any anger there.

[Senrain]

I just think people need to stop crying over certain items being in the game. There are items that I’m not too wild about, so I ignore said items and don’t pick them up. It’s really that easy, you’re not being forced to pick up the Japanese weapons or bondage suits, which honestly you’d probably find that shit lying around in people’s homes IRL as well.

I mean, it’s probably not my place to bitch about a mod I don’t have to use, but I honestly think some people need to grow the fuck up.

[Inquisitor_Dust]

So, er… I don’t want to get involved in this whole fight going on, but would it make sense to integrate medieval weapons mod into the main jsons then make a blacklist mod instead?

[kevin.granade]

It would, I’m planning on doing that to all the content removal mods just as soon as I get around to it.
Or someone else can feel free to do the same:

1. Make a “No_” mod folder and modinfo.json file containing a blacklist.
2. Populate said blacklist with the ids of the items in the corresponding mod you’re replacing. (you don’t have to worry about the recipes)
3. Copy the .json files from the corresponding mod to the main json folder.
   It might be more appropriate to just copy the files over, it might be better to merge them into existing files, or organize them some other way. Use judgement or ask.
4. Put up PR on github.

[Tawarochir]

Why… why is the fedora being removed?

And the Dragonskin Vest? I haven’t found one in normal gameplay and Wikipedia tells me that they’re real.

I could care less about the bikinis, clown stuff, useless stuff like the fishbowl and dental grill, and the clown gear… but why specifically the fedora?

Not that I won’t remove it from my own blacklist immediately of course.

Also, my actual vote is missing from the list, but the one where I quoted the second guy is still there.

[kevin.granade]

Supposedly there’s some reference to a fedora in MLP, and therefore that makes it evil? That’s all I’ve been able to gather.
Regarding the dragonskin vest, some people object to items that are “too good”, alternately someone might not know what it is and think it’s some kind of fantasy reference, even though the description clearly states what it is.
You get one vote post in the thread, additional ones will be deleted. If you don’t want to vote for all the stuff you’re quoting, edit your post to change the items mentioned. If you do edit it, please remove the quote tags, otherwise I might miss the change.

[Tawarochir]

Okay then. I’ll go replace my post with my REAL post, the first one.

[Robik]

To objections like ‘What is the fuss about, just ignore the stuff you don’t like.’:
In real life, you could just glance over the crap* and ignore it. In game though, these items clutter UI. There can only be certain amount of stuff before the game ends up unplayable.

To watch-jewelry:
What people that suggested removing jewelry wanted to achieve? Only they know, but I would guess that they didn’t want to remove widely used practical thing from game. Some watches can be considered jewelry, true… but so can be every item that is worn, like cell phones from Vertu. Removing jewelry variant is ok, removing entire category is not.

[sub]* crap: item not useful to your survival in cataclysm, not necessarily crap in itself[/sub]

[kevin.granade]

I’m explicitly not looking for a rationale for additions to the list. If I were there wouldn’t be a list, because I can’t think of a good reason for the vast majority of them. Evidently the people voting either don’t have a problem with it, or don’t care enough to bother changing their votes.

[Robik]

I’m explicitly not looking for a rationale for additions to the list. If I were there wouldn’t be a list, because I can’t think of a good reason for the vast majority of them. Evidently the people voting either don’t have a problem with it, or don’t care enough to bother changing their votes.

I am confused, did anyone specifically stated wristwatches to be on the blacklist? Or are they defined in json as jewelry? Otherwise, what is your rationale (that you are saying you are not looking for) to consider wristwatches to be jewelry?

If you want to make a list without using any rationale, IMO only votes for specific items should be allowed.

Edit: by specific item, I mean id from json

Edit2:
Btw, I am not trying to be asshole, but this blacklist will be garbage anyway

Important thing is, that blacklisting mods are now possible. If someone want to do a blacklist, he can make a mod. If it ends any good and people will use it, it may be adopted later into default mod in load order.

[IcedPee]

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:62, topic:6401”]I’m explicitly not looking for a rationale for additions to the list. If I were there wouldn’t be a list, because I can’t think of a good reason for the vast majority of them. Evidently the people voting either don’t have a problem with it, or don’t care enough to bother changing their votes.

I am confused, did anyone specifically stated wristwatches to be on the blacklist? Or are they defined in json as jewelry? Otherwise, what is your rationale (that you are saying you are not looking for) to consider wristwatches to be jewelry?[/quote]

I actually took a moment to look into this, and I found something interesting. The watches (wrist, diving, gold, fancy) are not grouped with other jewelry like the pearl necklace, jade brooch, earrings, and all of that. They’re in an entirely separate category. In addition, the watches actually have their own unique [WATCH] tag applicable only to them.

So to answer the question, no, nobody specifically stated for wristwatches to be on the blacklist, they requested jewelry and made a couple of examples, that were as follows “(Jade/silver/gold hairpins/necklaces)”. Kevin interpreted this, somehow, into the inclusion of the removal of watches. The [FANCY] tagged watches would be understandable given the suggestion, but I fail to see how wristwatches and dive watches to be jewelry, but it was a fair mistake to make, after all he isn’t a mind-reader.

However I don’t understand why, given the overwhelming agreement that those two specific types of watches are not jewelry, that he insists on including them in the blacklist. It’s not a very difficult change to make, but it seems he’d prefer to spend time justifying his misinterpretation and drag out the discussion rather than actually do what people (including the voters in the blacklist thread) want him to do.

[kevin.granade]

In an amusing twist, none of the other maintainers were willing to merge the PR, so it’s not happening after all.
Feel free to grab it from https://github.com/kevingranade/Cataclysm-DDA/blob/controversial-items/data/mods/community_item_blacklist/modinfo.json and drop it into your game, but it’s not going into the main distribution.

[Paquito]

In an amusing twist, none of the other maintainers were willing to merge the PR, so it’s not happening after all.

yay

[IcedPee]

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:65, topic:6401”]In an amusing twist, none of the other maintainers were willing to merge the PR, so it’s not happening after all.
Feel free to grab it from https://github.com/kevingranade/Cataclysm-DDA/blob/controversial-items/data/mods/community_item_blacklist/modinfo.json and drop it into your game, but it’s not going into the main distribution.[/quote]

Welp, all that argument for nothing. No hard feelings, I hope?

[ShinQuickMan]

Good thing it’s just a simple json.

[kevin.granade]

[quote=“IcedPee, post:67, topic:6401”][quote=“Kevin Granade, post:65, topic:6401”]In an amusing twist, none of the other maintainers were willing to merge the PR, so it’s not happening after all.
Feel free to grab it from https://github.com/kevingranade/Cataclysm-DDA/blob/controversial-items/data/mods/community_item_blacklist/modinfo.json and drop it into your game, but it’s not going into the main distribution.[/quote]

Welp, all that argument for nothing. No hard feelings, I hope?[/quote]
The only thing that really annoys me is the wasted time. If I had just shut this down in the first place, I probably would have my aiming system done by now.

[Rivet]

I just placed a really minimal PR that only blacklists the oh-so-troubling sexually-themed items. Hopefully it’s too specific in scope for extended argument.

Forget that. Blacklists are super easy and I still don’t like this. If people really want to blacklist stuff like that I suggest they download a copy of Notepad++ and get crackin’.

[FunsizeNinja123]

If people really want to blacklist stuff like that I suggest they download a copy of Notepad++ and get crackin’.

[Hague]

Also, a Tonfa and a police baton, while similar, are not the same. The tonfa has a wide and narrow side with the wider side tapering toward the middle. It’s designed to be spun allowed to centripetally swing in the palm of the user’s hand and preserve momentum for a swing, while reducing shock in the user’s arm. It is generally heavier than a police baton and it’s narrower striking-area ensures it causes more breaks and fractures than the baton. The police baton, in this instance, is intended to do less harm than a tonfa would. That isn’t to say, a Police baton can’t be used to hurt people. It’s just that a tonfa is a better design for hurting people.

It should be noted that most of the weapons we think are cool ninja toys should consider that the use of these types of weapons was a necessity. The tonfa, like the nunchaku, three-section staff and kama, is an agricultural tool repurposed as a weapon of subterfuge or opportunity. Self-defense regimen developed around these tools as a result of bans on swords, spears and more traditional weapons, especially in Japan-occupied Okinawa.

[kevin.granade]

Also, a Tonfa and a police baton, while similar, are not the same. The tonfa has a wide and narrow side with the wider side tapering toward the middle. It’s designed to be spun allowed to centripetally swing in the palm of the user’s hand and preserve momentum for a swing, while reducing shock in the user’s arm. It is generally heavier than a police baton and it’s narrower striking-area ensures it causes more breaks and fractures than the baton. The police baton, in this instance, is intended to do less harm than a tonfa would. That isn’t to say, a Police baton can’t be used to hurt people. It’s just that a tonfa is a better design for hurting people.

That is absolutely correct, but I think the distinction is too fine for our weapon system to pick up on.
Note, the end result of the previous discussion is that we have a tonfa item and several police baton items, each of which has their own properties. The main distinction of the police baton items is that they’re collapsible, though the combat stats also differ slightly. There are of course non-collapsible police batons, but there hasn’t been any interest in adding them as of yet.