Is there / could there be a mod for constant increasing difficulty?

[ianpwilliams]

Yes some great ideas, let’s hope that some can be incorporated.

Until then though, is it possible to change things mid-game to increase the difficulty? It looks like mods can only be chosen at the beginning, correct? But are there console commands that could be used mid-game?

[Noctifer]

How about making the spawn rate and monster evolution value dependent on base stats and skills? The higher they are the difficult it gets. Maybe it could be made in LUA (has no idea how lua works).

[Magitek]

If you want to be mean without punishing survivalist players, you could always go the route of learned resistances.
e.g the more bludgeoning damage you use, the more zombies become resistant over time. There’s also the possibility of applying it powerfully to individual monsters while playing (designed specifically for making the players life hard), spontaneous mutation sort of thing.

In the short term, i’m sure you could just throw up the spawn rate and number of special zombies, but it might get annoying/impossible if not well balanced. If there’s one thing Cataclysm doesn’t have, it’s a difficulty curve. It’s pretty fun till late game though.

[Random_dragon]

Right. If there was some way to sync monster evolution to player skills, I can see that being an option for dynamic difficulty. But that would fuck players over if they have skills rusting, would need to be focused on combat skills only, and would get bent over the table by Stats Through Skills unless it also looks at STAT increases as a source of “how much can the player handle” measurements.

[Muaddib]

I’ve been replaying Oblivion since a few weeks, and I’d just like to warn everyone for the main problem with increasing difficulty of a game.

Loss of resources.

When a game increases in difficulty and has crafting etc. you run the risk of locking the player out of certain resources because low_level_enemy_4 stops spawning and no longer drops its exclusive drop.

[Noctifer]

This game is focused on scavenging resources should always be available by moving else where. Besides, most zombie drops remain the same when a monster evolves.

[kevin.granade]

Just a heads up, linking scaling to the player is mod territory, the plan for the main game is to have various monsters get stronger over time (zombies evolve, ants/triffids/fungi multiply, nether types might make strongholds), and possibly have some player-triggered events that make things harder somehow, but I’m fundamentally opposed to linking it to player progression directly.

[ianpwilliams]

OK, it’s good to hear that there are plans for making the late game harder and more challenging, be it via mods or in the main game (either is fine with me). I’ll probably not make it until late game anyway until several versions down the line!

Love this game though. As time goes on I get less interested in big budget games with great graphics but with a fixed storyline and game world (Fallout 4 will have to be an exception to the rule though), and much more interested in CDDA and other roguelikes, games with more replay value and imagination in them. Great work.

[Noctifer]

Just a heads up, linking scaling to the player is mod territory, the plan for the main game is to have various monsters get stronger over time (zombies evolve, ants/triffids/fungi multiply, nether types might make strongholds), and possibly have some player-triggered events that make things harder somehow, but I’m fundamentally opposed to linking it to player progression directly.

Fair enough. If its doable via LUA (like the statsthoughskills mod), then no source code messing around will be necessary.

[Valpo]

Scaling Enemies strength on player strength defeats the purpose of player progression. If the difficulty is to rise then it should be in a way independant from the player characters abillities.

Making a mod about this would be a waste of energie.

[Noctifer]

I mean more of it increasing over time but taking into account by how much to increase depending on the players strength, no dependent on it. If the player does not become stronger by the time the next upgrade comes around, too bad, it just go harder still.

[vache]

IMO the main source of increased difficulty should be the result of locations opening up that weren’t available (or at least weren’t reasonable to be expected to take on) when the player was lower skilled and geared. These locations should be REQUIRED to advance to certain gear, which might have to result in things being tweaked in terms of spawn locations (power armor, optical cloak, certain weapons).

[Valpo]

I mean more of it increasing over time but taking into account by how much to increase depending on the players strength, no dependent on it. If the player does not become stronger by the time the next upgrade comes around, too bad, it just go harder still.

Well taking player strength into account is scaling by player strength(care to explain the differens you see?). It needs to be divorced of player progress. A roguelike especialy is mostly unforgiving … just like life. Don t take that away. Well i won t opose a mod. I am just saying its not productive.

IMO the main source of increased difficulty should be the result of locations opening up that weren’t available (or at least weren’t reasonable to be expected to take on) when the player was lower skilled and geared. These locations should be REQUIRED to advance to certain gear, which might have to result in things being tweaked in terms of spawn locations (power armor, optical cloak, certain weapons).

That is a sensibel suggestion.

That and making the world come alive will create challenge.

If factions progress without players beeing near them then you ll soon have a world that has lots of unpleasant things fighting for dominance.

[Noctifer]

Let me explain, let say that every season spawn rate and evolution rate go up by 10x. If the player has not progresses in skill or stats then it only increases by 5x, if either a stat or skill is increase then it still goes up by 10x but if both a set skill and stat go up then it increase by 20x. Granted, many skills and stats would affect other fassets of game play.

[vache]

The problem is there are a ton of factors to take into account in regards to player strength. Players’ weapons, armor, stats, skills, bionics, mutations, followers, vehicles, and more all contribute to how “strong” a player is, but it is next to impossible to combine all of those factors into one convenient method for scaling difficulty.

[Valpo]

Let me explain, let say that every season spawn rate and evolution rate go up by 10x. If the player has not progresses in skill or stats then it only increases by 5x, if either a stat or skill is increase then it still goes up by 10x but if both a set skill and stat go up then it increase by 20x. Granted, many skills and stats would affect other fassets of game play.

Thats scaling on player stats.
Well at least its kinda less linear.

I still opose that idea.

[kevin.granade]

IMO the main source of increased difficulty should be the result of locations opening up that weren’t available (or at least weren’t reasonable to be expected to take on) when the player was lower skilled and geared. These locations should be REQUIRED to advance to certain gear, which might have to result in things being tweaked in terms of spawn locations (power armor, optical cloak, certain weapons).

Yes this too, the main challenge here is making them reasonably dangerous looking so that they aren’t just a newb trap.

[ianpwilliams]

I note that it is possible to change the spawn rate mid game in the options menu. Does anyone do this? I suppose you could up the spawn rate (maybe by 1 every 10 days or something) if you wanted a tougher challenge. Or if you found yourself with a nice comfy base which you could theoretically stay in for months, then maybe you could up the spawn rate to 50 for maybe a day, then bring it back down to 1.

Does anyone play with the spawn rate during games? And has anyone tried the “zombie hoarde” option, and if so, how is it?

[Random_dragon]

This gives me an idea. Stats Through Skills does demonstrate that LUA scripting can allow stats to be looked at, and allow things to be messed with in reaction to stat increases.

Can LUA scripting be used to edit a map’s settings?

[Valpo]

[quote=“vache, post:26, topic:10888”]IMO the main source of increased difficulty should be the result of locations opening up that weren’t available (or at least weren’t reasonable to be expected to take on) when the player was lower skilled and geared. These locations should be REQUIRED to advance to certain gear, which might have to result in things being tweaked in terms of spawn locations (power armor, optical cloak, certain weapons).

Yes this too, the main challenge here is making them reasonably dangerous looking so that they aren’t just a newb trap.[/quote]

I actually do enjoy reading post from antagonised players dieing on evil things… but i guess you might have a different angle.