Is there any real point to fortifying a house?

[FunsizeNinja123]

I’m going to note I’ve been playing the game for 4-5 hours a day for a few weeks now and never realized that we have hitpoints.

Erm… I bet those green bars on the side didn’t mean anything huh?

[secretfire]

I just assumed it was limb health. I never got them low enough without dying to really see - I never broke a leg or anything - but I assumed that if head got too far down, I’d be knocked out, if arm got too far down, I’d break an arm (or loose it) and so on. That was just what I assumed. Sure, in retrospect “hitpoints” - but at least in how it appears, its not unrealistic. Or wasn’t, to me.

Though it is wierd I never broke a leg or sprained an ankle.

[FunsizeNinja123]

Spraining stuff in game isn’t really in yet, but would add a nice dynamic.

Though it would be annoying.

[Alpha]

[quote=“Kevin Granade, post:29, topic:5756”][/quote]
Yes, there is harm in it. The game is built as a gritty survival game at its core, and for me at least that’s the primary attraction. I’m pretty sure it’s the same for a lot of others as well. If we start adding core mechanics that are unrealistic “because there’s already unrealistic things in the game”, it’s all to easy to lose any sense of verisimilitude. If anything I’m continuing to make it more realistic, because grossly unrealistic things like having “acid rain” produce large amounts of acid, which if you know anything about biology means EVERYTHING would be dead in short order bugs the hell out of me. Yea, I’m the kind of guy that gets pissed at EVERY MOVIE EVER about getting all the science wrong, I don’t want to commit the same transgressions in my game, thankyouverymuch.

FYI, decaying corpses is going in tonight-ish, so there’s that.
[/quote]

I agree, and with movies, i drive my wife up the wall every time i see something that isn’t correct and i’m like…That would never happen in a million years… She always responds with “its a movie Michael, made in Hollywood, No one cares.” But its one of those agitating things about movies and some games, when realism is broken often times it messes with your mind and breaks your immersion from the story, or in this case the game.

[kevin.granade]

I’m not saying to add totally unrealistic elements to the game, just because it’s a game. If that were the case I’d be suggesting a very rare encounter during Winter with Santa, flying down in his armoured sleigh and mechanical reindeer whilst killing Zombies with cheesy lines like “You’ve all been very, VERY naughty.” or “Here’s your present.” then throws a grenade or something. He’d then, if you get to him, he gifts you a weapon with ammunition.

That kind of thing is actually less bad, you set the expectations of “hey, we’re taking a break from reality for a minute and being silly”, on the other hand some people disagree, and I keep meaning to have a “Crazy Cataclysm” option (or I gues mod now) to enable this kind of silliness without ruining people’s games.

Once again, can’t stress this enough, I’m not suggesting it because it would be entirely unrealistic and more ‘game’ like, I understand this is meant to be a gritty realistic survival game, however the word ‘game’ is still implemented and it will naturally stretch the truth, if not a lot, but a little.

Full stop right there, you’re begging the question that “game” implies “unrealistic”. You have that opinion, and it is typical in the games industry, but it is not remotely the case. In addition you’re arguing that since some departures exist, there should be more, which is also an invalid argument.

All in all I’m just saying that if there’s a problem, and there are two options to deal with this, one being mildly (and only mildly) unrealistic, the other being more realistic, you shouldn’t just rule out the mildly unrealistic one just because of it,

In that case you’re saying nothing. The things I really tend to raise a stink about aren’t “mildly” unrealistic, they tend to be absurdly, mind-bogglingly unrealistic. I also NEVER said that unrealistic things can’t be in the game at all, I said the default is realism, and departures should be justified.

what matters in the end that it’s found to be enjoyable, not a chore. I mean dear lord if you implement needing to wash, more base bodily functions, sweeping inside your base due to dust, all the little things that would make it more realistic, we might as well change the name to “Cataclysm: Dark Days Ahead - The Sims Edition”

Great, this crap strawman again. I’m getting really sick of people comparing me objecting to physically impossible game mechanics to inane crap that I have publicly argued against many times. Future notice, if you want me to ignore what you have to say, imply that I’m in favor of adding bodily functions to the game or compare dda to the sims.

[uncle.kat]

I guess some people don’t get the idea of “game in evolution”. While killing all the zombies does secure the area and wildlife isn’t really prone to breaking into houses, I imagine that someday hordes will start working and we’ll experience a lot more than wandering hordes of zombie hulks.

I believe in a world, where you and your buddies, while preparing to rest, set up watch shifts. Where it’s not only zombies, but other groups of survivors, in a dire need of your belongings, that stalk your houses. Where you build generators and ultimately power your house / base / fort / small village and protect your beloved vegetables, growing on small, well secured fields. Where living a nomadic life isn’t the only option, but a life’s choice. And where you travel in a caravan from a gas station to gas station, taking what little fuel is available and bringing it back home. This is the world I want to see someday, with NPCs, micromanagement and working backpacks.

As for realism - don’t mix up “real world realism” and “fantasy realism”. CDDA is supposed to be somewhat like a good post-apocalyptic movie. Mad Max did struggle for fuel and ammo and probably food, but have you seen ANYONE in this movie sweep dust or go for a leak? Me neither. Also, sometimes I think people want CDDA to be more like Call of Duty and Fallout 2 but that Call of Duty would be more like Fallout 1 and that Fallout 2 would be more like Fallout 1.

[Umbra_Vorago]

That kind of thing is actually less bad, you set the expectations of “hey, we’re taking a break from reality for a minute and being silly”, on the other hand some people disagree, and I keep meaning to have a “Crazy Cataclysm” option (or I gues mod now) to enable this kind of silliness without ruining people’s games.

Then god damn it I would love to see this mod. Oooh, perhaps if you’ve killed a lot of friendly NPC’s Santa will call you bad and try kill you?

Full stop right there, you’re begging the question that “game” implies “unrealistic”. You have that opinion, and it is typical in the games industry, but it is not remotely the case. In addition you’re arguing that since some departures exist, there should be more, which is also an invalid argument.

Fair point, there are some realistic games out there, truck simulator is one that comes to mind, some of which are enjoyable, however I’m not saying just because there are some departures that there ‘should’ be more, simply that there ‘could’ be a little one. No I don’t mean a little one turns in to lots of little ones which turns in to a couple of big ones. Just a little one to fix something that needed fixing when there were no other options.

In that case you’re saying nothing. The things I really tend to raise a stink about aren’t “mildly” unrealistic, they tend to be absurdly, mind-bogglingly unrealistic. I also NEVER said that unrealistic things can’t be in the game at all, I said the default is realism, and departures should be justified.

Well I’m sorry for misunderstanding, I had assumed with your comment earlier about picking flaws in movies, that you were entirely %100 against realism and gritted your teeth at what departures were already implemented, big or small.

Great, this crap strawman again. I’m getting really sick of people comparing me objecting to physically impossible game mechanics to inane crap that I have publicly argued against many times. Future notice, if you want me to ignore what you have to say, imply that I’m in favor of adding bodily functions to the game or compare dda to the sims.

Well firstly, I apologize for saying it, I hadn’t realised you had heard the comment so many times. Secondly, although it’s pretty damn hard to tell from text, I was joking (Which is why I suppose I should use emotes a bit more often.) I simply found the name funny calling it the Sims, you’re not stupid, I know you wouldn’t add the inane little things like that. I apologize if it irritated you, had I have known that you heard such comments before I would have refrained from typing it. Still find the name funny though, the Sims Edition. xD Someone should make a mod for that, if you’re in to that kind of thing.

Ooh, here’s a thought; Washing yourself. I mean you don’t ‘need’ to do it, but it would help stop animals tracking your scent. Bit of soap and water, boom, your scent level goes down temporarily.

[uncle.kat]

Ooh, here’s a thought; Washing yourself. I mean you don’t ‘need’ to do it, but it would help stop animals tracking your scent. Bit of soap and water, boom, your scent level goes down temporarily.

Yes great idea indeed, from there on they would be tracking that extremly strong scent of soap. I’d rather cover myself in rotting zombie flesh or bear poop. That would help in many cases.

[system]

[quote=“Umbra Vorago, post:42, topic:5756”]Ooh, here’s a thought; Washing yourself. I mean you don’t ‘need’ to do it, but it would help stop animals tracking your scent. Bit of soap and water, boom, your scent level goes down temporarily.

Yes great idea indeed, from there on they would be tracking that extremly strong scent of soap. I’d rather cover myself in rotting zombie flesh or bear poop. That would help in many cases.[/quote]
Yeah really, I know this because I operate.

[Alpha]

=( i feel like im the only one who see’s some of the things he claims would be tedious as more immersive? I mean bodily functions are kinda a whatever but i think it would be cool taking further care of your base, say you ran through a swamp to get into your base, you got mud on your boots, you track mud in, and actually with bodily functions i kinda find it amusing thinking of my survivor freaking out cause he has to take a shit so bad but he gots a long walk home… zombear pops out, well he doesnt gotta go anymore but his underwear smell fowl… I mean im not really asking for it but it would be kinda fun to maintain your character more, Id like to see a mod of it some day.

[uncle.kat]

You see, this indeed sounds fun. “Sounds” being the key word. It would be same kind fun as watching cutscenes in a game. Entertaining once, twice, ten times, but then it would only get annoying. Let’s add some more functions and soon we will have option to control eye blinking.

Stuff like that should be an important part of gameplay - take blinking for example. Go play SCP-087. See for yourself, how they integrated it into gameplay. But poops and giggles don’t serve gameplay much, they’re just an annoyance that might influence some variables indeed - but on a very small scale or in a very long run. Poop yourself and your scent is a bit stronger and you get a small morale penalty. But it’s not something you need to struggle with - it’s just "that thing you do every now and then, by pressing % (bodily functions) and b (both poop and leak) and then % (bodily functions), then ! (more) and then m (maintenance), w (wipe ass), and finally g (that’s a book in your inventory), y (yes to disassemble) and done. A bit hyperbolic, but still.

I’d love to see nourishment, like in Unreal World. You CAN keep your belly full of berries, but it’s not very good for your health in the long run. But then, keeping yourself well fed isn’t really hard in Cataclysm, is it. I’ve never been in a situation, where I don’t have access to good quality food. Other thing I miss is being able to survive naked in wilderness. You can’t make a sharp rock. We need a sharp rock as a simple cutting tool to butcher animals, get sinews and make some more serious knives. But it’s just a rant, I could mod it myself, if I wanted.

[Alpha]

[quote=“uncle.kat, post:46, topic:5756”]You see, this indeed sounds fun. “Sounds” being the key word. It would be same kind fun as watching cutscenes in a game. Entertaining once, twice, ten times, but then it would only get annoying. Let’s add some more functions and soon we will have option to control eye blinking.

Stuff like that should be an important part of gameplay - take blinking for example. Go play SCP-087. See for yourself, how they integrated it into gameplay. But poops and giggles don’t serve gameplay much, they’re just an annoyance that might influence some variables indeed - but on a very small scale or in a very long run. Poop yourself and your scent is a bit stronger and you get a small morale penalty. But it’s not something you need to struggle with - it’s just "that thing you do every now and then, by pressing % (bodily functions) and b (both poop and leak) and then % (bodily functions), then ! (more) and then m (maintenance), w (wipe ass), and finally g (that’s a book in your inventory), y (yes to disassemble) and done. A bit hyperbolic, but still.

I’d love to see nourishment, like in Unreal World. You CAN keep your belly full of berries, but it’s not very good for your health in the long run. But then, keeping yourself well fed isn’t really hard in Cataclysm, is it. I’ve never been in a situation, where I don’t have access to good quality food. Other thing I miss is being able to survive naked in wilderness. You can’t make a sharp rock. We need a sharp rock as a simple cutting tool to butcher animals, get sinews and make some more serious knives. But it’s just a rant, I could mod it myself, if I wanted.[/quote]
Nah to me this IS fun, not sounds fun, I mean i am not asking to be added into the core game, nor do i plan to ever suggest anything else to the core game as its always shit on and then im just left feeling stupid for even suggesting it, but if someone were to make a mod that requires you to take better care of your character and have to maintain your body, nutrition, hygiene, so on so forth, Id love them for it!
Btw love the idea of nutrition being based on what kind of things you have ingested and have been ingesting over time, URW did this flawlessly and i couldn’t get enough of it, seeing that in cataclysm would make things very interesting and significantly more difficult.

[uncle.kat]

It would make it more difficult if there was some major rebalancing or some serious work put into it: as I see it nowadays it’s easy to eat nourishing stuff. It would be a matter of diet then, perhaps? But monitoring the intake of veggies, meat and carbs, while sounds fun, isn’t necesarily an important addition. “Maybe in future”. What would be fun is Dorf Fort combat combined with URW wound care system.

But how does that go along fortifying a house?

[Arek_PL]

for me cataclysm have enought realism

[Umbra_Vorago]

I’d love to see nourishment, like in Unreal World. You CAN keep your belly full of berries, but it’s not very good for your health in the long run.

Heh, how about adding weight as well? You get too thin, you get too weak. Too fat? You’re too slow. During a zombie apocalypse, as stated in the movie “Zombieland”, the fat people are always the first to go.

Back on topic though, I just found a “CBM: Probability Travel” so with that, I can basically make a giant box and live in that forever, no doors or windows, just walk through the wall. Why bother fortifying when I can just block myself in? Need wandering hordes with a Hulk, maybe two. That, and a crap load of traps/turrets.

Speaking of turrets, do they run out of ammo?

[Aluminumfoil]

hey, hi, do wait a sec. this caught my eye cause i can take my base’s map and make it travel to another world by just copying around a few files and restarting once or twice. its pretending to be a tardis. and fortifications matter there. ultimately ')

How do you do that? I’d enjoy being able to move from world to world when the game updates without having to leave my car and home behind.

Umbra: Turrets do not run out of ammo. This might change someday, if plans to make characters and monsters different implementations of the same type are accomplished.

[HunterAlpha1]

[quote=“Sep, post:28, topic:5756”]hey, hi, do wait a sec. this caught my eye cause i can take my base’s map and make it travel to another world by just copying around a few files and restarting once or twice. its pretending to be a tardis. and fortifications matter there. ultimately ')

How do you do that? I’d enjoy being able to move from world to world when the game updates without having to leave my car and home behind.

Umbra: Turrets do not run out of ammo. This might change someday, if plans to make characters and monsters different implementations of the same type are accomplished.[/quote]I think limited turret ammo was added in a recent experimental.

[Sep]

How do you do that? I’d enjoy being able to move from world to world when the game updates without having to leave my car and home behind.

the short answer is that you need to find the .map file containing your shelter. inscribe a skewer with some crazy word, drop it, then run a text search to find yourself in the world. ok? good. now copy that file, including its -1 version in case it had a basement into your new world.

now copy you .sav file from under maps into the new world too and load your character. the game will now have produced a new overmap in case there was not one before. its likely that nothing will work right now. save and exit.

copy the .map and .sav files from old to new once more then start the game up again.

it may well turn out that you are now somewhere completely different. your house is still at the right coordinates but you seem to have moved around. that’s not a bug, its about how the worldgen seems to work. its fine. in the long answer i’d explain to you how you can use the difference in the map locations you are on (press M, those numbers in the bottom right are what i mean) e.g. between the two worlds and add it to what’s stored in your .sav file to move your avatar too, but it would be quicker for you to just try running there, to the coordinates your house had in the old world.

and that’s that. let me know if it works for you. you can go some strange places this way!

[RogueEsp]

No.
a) Much noise.
b) Time-eater.

But I think that fortifiying far-from-cities-constructions worth it. You know, farm houses and those buildings.

[Sep]

You know, farm houses and those buildings.

yep. just takes metal doors and windows to keep the zombears out for good